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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - ride height wrong springs?

An old thread on another forum suggested VB had springs wrong for a while. My '63 sits high in front, what do you think? Rides nice, handles nice, looks silly.



J Van Dyke

Yep, no doubt that isnt the right ride hight.
I must say, even for 1500 springs they look rather high.
If you think its a nice ride now wait untill you drop the suspension to normal hight, youll love it!
Arie de Best

Has someone stolen your engine?
d cusworth


I had this on my midget.

I put it down to cheap springs made at the wrong spring rate.

Eventually I gave up and used lowering spacers to get it to look right.
Gavin Rowles

Lowering spacers? care to elaborate?
J Van Dyke

If I went to a spring shop (good one close by) what would I tell them I wanted? height, rate....I don't know anything about suspension stuff.
J Van Dyke

get some nice springs at peter may or anny of the other suplyers

seems like 1500 springs (keep in mind no bumper weight)
Onno Könemann

Lowering spacers can either be a collection of plain washers or steel tubes cut to a specific length which go in between the spring pan seat and the wishbone. If you look at an exploded diagram you'll get the idea. What you need to do is measure the gap between the top of the tyre and wheelarch center - it looks to be about 100mm in your case - and if for example you wanted to lower it to say 60mm - you'll need to put in spacers equal to 1/2 that value or about 20mm. So you'd be looking for 8 tubes with a O/D of 12mm cut to 20mm long. You'll also need a set of longer 1/2 AF bolts and nyloc nuts,as the current ones will be too short.
f pollock

Jeff,
The coil springs on your car originally were:
part# 2A4214 (for Frogeye, GAN1/HAN6 and GAN2/HAN7)
free length: 9,4" (238 mm)
coil diam: 3,625"(92 mm)
winding diam: 13 mm
number of effective coils: 7
working load: 750 lb
rate: 271 lb/inch (3,12 kg/m)

(AFAIK, BMC used three types during the entire Midget production run: the ones originally on your car, a slightly longer spring with reduced winding diam for the half elliptic rear suspension cars (a bit softer) and an even longer spring introduced with the ruber bumper models)

Hope this helps,

Nick, '63Midget.
D.G.J. Herwegh

Okay, I think I'm getting the lowering spacer thing. Effectively letting spring stick down lower, or attach the car "higher up" on the spring.
This picture borrowed from another guy who I hope doesn't mind.



J Van Dyke

took wheel off, no paint but a label!!
VB part number 5-5080 which is correct one but obviously not.
measured top of wheel to peak of wheel arch 95mm, if I want to lower it by half that, say 48mm according to above I should shoot for spacers of 24mm. Why spacer size half of the drop I want?
At what point are lowering spacers too big and not a good idea?
J Van Dyke

That exactly the way mine is, and yes I got my coils from VB also, I had measured and measured, looked at a level till I was growing gills while looking at the bubble time after time, But the car always measured level.

I eventually chaulked it up to I screwed up the fender arches when I was doing the body work, by cutting to far up into the fender.

Well its nice to know Im not alone.

Now If I could only learn to spell "MIDGET" forward style

Prop


Prop***The End in 2012

Ideally you'd use shorter springs with a spring rate suitable for your needs. But even using shorter springs there's no guarantee you'll end up at exactly the ride height you want. I installed a pair of Peter May springs a few years back and still had to fiddle about with spacers to get the ride height looking right. Tube spacers are an accepable and cheap way of improving the handling, and getting the appearance you want quickly. The 1/2 value is only a guide and based on the geometry where the spring pan seat is in a relative mid point between the inner bush and outer fulcrum pin. Usually I end up doing it twice - the first time will be the 1/2 value guesstimate and gets you close and the next time gets it about right. Looking at your photo I'd suggest using proper automotive nuts and bolts - threaded rod from B&Q is too soft and not suitable here. Also if the springs you have are relatively new you can expect them to settle with use.
f pollock

Great thanks, this will be a go then. The springs were put in 1987 (when the car was "restored") but it only had 2000 miles until I bought it. It now has 4000 and more coming!
I'd like to drop it almost 2 inches though, that's pretty radical but that what it "appears" it will take to get the symmetry looking better.
J Van Dyke

Is there a measurement (I don't have my manuals here to look) that dictates ride height, like sill to street or something, just so I have a target beyond my gut?
J Van Dyke

There's no hard and fast rule. Certainly the sill wants to look parallel to the ground or slightly nose down - but never tail down. As a start you could measure the sill to ground at the rear and use that as a target.
f pollock

As an experiment I did 2" spacers, yes I know, that's a lot. Ride is perfect now though. Is it okay to run this way or not?


J Van Dyke

Assuming it's unladen it's probably a little more than I'd take it as it will drop even further with occupants or fully laden. I'd sanity check the dimension underneath from spring pan seat to ground on full bump as well as the distance left to the rebound rubber. It's not comfortable to drive around on the bump stops all day. If it clears the bump stop rubbers in all conditions and you're happy with the way it looks and feels get the tracking checked at your local suspension shop and retorque the new spring pan bolts after 500 miles. Well done.
f pollock

what about just using an angle grinder and cutting an 1" or so off the springs, would that work instead of spacers?

granted you dont want to use a oxy/act torch because you will soften the metal

Prop
Prop***The End in 2012

Prop, cutting the springs removes the flat on the top which allows the spring to "seat" into it's housing.

It also increases the effective spring rate by an unpredictable amount, making the spring much harder.

Not a good idea.

AndyB
a borris

I have a suspicion I won't be able to live the ride, judging solely by pushing down on the wing on the side I did last night, it feels very unforgiving. Will this throw off the toe-in alignment? I imagine so.
J Van Dyke

The spring rate hasn't changed. I imagine you're hitting the bump stops as you push down. Take it up 15mm and reduce the bump stop by the same amount - like I say it usually takes a couple of goes to get it right! A note for Prop. Another old banger I have is an Austin A35 and the clown who had it before had cut the springs with an angle grinder. The car rode so low it now has a big horizontal crease in the sump left by the anti roll bar when it hit something very hard. I replaced the springs of course but if you'd like the old ones to test you're more than welcome.
f pollock

Found out why the bounce test failed, floor jack was still under the car! go down a bit and it was bottoming out on it, duh. Removed, bounced hard on wing and could detect no issues. Decided to try the 2" drop on the driver's side now too. Will return with results when I can.....
J Van Dyke

Ahhhhh,

I guess I better not do that then....


Prop
Prop***The End in 2012

Can this approach be used to correct the lean to the driver's side of the car many Midgets have??
Adrian Jones

Dropped the other side 2" and it's all too low now. Haven't driven it and I don't plan on it but after she was on her own 4 feet again the front was way down, not bottoming out when I bounced it hard but now it looks almost as bad being too low as it did being too high, so I'm going to try 2" bolts and 1" spacers and split the difference between the nothing I had and the 2" drop I just did. That should put me close. Maybe I should do 1.5" drop on the drivers and 1" on the passenger to correct this lean I hear of, but I never noticed it before....
J Van Dyke

Before you start stage #2 I'd suggest you roll the car 10' backwards and forwards to 'normalise ' the tyre sidewall,otherwise you'll get a false reading and then measure center of wheel to center of wheelarch front and rear to see how close to even the car sits. If it's within 5mm side to side it's close enough not to worry. Much more than that and it may be worth adjusting the appropriate corner, bearing in mind adjustments you do at one corner can affect all the others.
f pollock

Good call, will do. Lord and Wife willing I'll get to it early next week. Wife is getting grumpier than the Lord at the moment as I'm in the garage until the wee hours.....better leave off the car for a bit and attend to both Lord and wife....
J Van Dyke

"Now If I could only learn to spell "MIDGET" forward style"

years ago I discovered that my sill badges wee spelled MIGDET, about two years after returning from the body shop.
S.A. Jones

LOL.

Did you notice the word "midget" was backwards on the car, and the steering wheel was on the UK side...I reversed the photo, So I could add the chrome side pipe to the car.


Prop
Prop***The End in 2012

Had a chance to go to 1" spacers (and 2" bolts). Looks right, feels right, I'm going with it.
Thanks everyone!!!


J Van Dyke

BTW, while I had one spring hanging loose I took as good a measurement as I could around the plate, darn close to 10". Too long.
J Van Dyke

Before and after


J Van Dyke

This thread was discussed between 24/03/2009 and 30/03/2009

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.