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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Rear towing points

Hi

One for the racers.

It looks like in the UK we will need two towing points at the front and rear. The front ones seem an easy fix - I have fitted a pair of secondhand ones of these (£10 on a certain auction site) - https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/towing-eye-aha6498.html - painted in Smootherite yellow as need a contrasting colour.

The requirement for two rear towing points seems trickier as the bumper iron mounts to the body do not look robust enough to tie a permanent strop to without bending the floor/rear panel when being towed.

Similarly I am not convinced that fabricating a towing eye, or using a tow loop such as https://www.trs-motorsport.com/fabric-tow-loop to bolt to these points would work as the floor/rear panel could be damaged when being towed out. Could use a longer strop to the rear axle, such as https://www.willans.com/tow-loops/towloopyw-historic-tow-loop or. https://www.trs-motorsport.com/wire-tow-loop to a suspension bolt, but I would be concerned about damage to the brake pipes/handbrake mechanism on the axle as well as the strop bending the rear body.

Thoughts?

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

This recently came up on Facebook and the consensus seems to be sandwiching steel plates either side of the floor and incorporating one of the 3 rear shackle bolts if that makes sense . Or you can do what a friend of mine did realising he was going off at a corner pulled the handbrake and went into the tyre wall backwards as it was easier to fix the rear !
Mike Fairclough

Thanks Mike

That is really interesting. Unfortunately my car is a quarter elliptic rear axled MkII Sprite, so no rear spring shackles. Maybe use your steel plate sandwich idea to either secure a nylon strop between the plates or create a single mounting point through the two plates for a strap, using two of the boot floor bolts (bumper hanger attachments) plus two new holes to sandwich the plates.

Best spin off backwards as you suggest!

Best wishes
Mike
M Wood

Why--? would they want two hooks, it's not like they'd need two tow towtrucks to pull a midget from a sandtrap
William Revit

Who knows Willy? Ask the FIA or MSUK I guess! The new regulation says 2 front and 2 rear, so one on each corner.
David Smith

Hi Mike,

The MSUK blue book is very confusing but you may have got your wires crossed because not all cars need to apply to all rules - midgets generally only need to apply to category F or older I think. And for reference, my formula ford has neither front nor rear tow points and would use only the roll hoop as a towing point.

I circuit race with the MGCC and have a only single tow point front and rear. I don't know a car with more than one tow point at each end. To your specific question regarding the rear tow point, some of the cars use the roll hoop or cross bar of the roll cage (clearly marked as such)...just like my formula ford. So, this may be an option depending on your exact usage and regs.

Is there a coordinator of your series that you can speak to who may be able to help - they are usually pretty hot on this stuff.

James
J Fettiplace

Mike, are you sure the new rule calls for two tow points at each end?

Blue Book Para S 10.2.15. Towing point(s) of adequate strength and size are mandatory. They must be clearly identified and suitably marked using a contrasting colour and be accessible to the front and rear of the vehicle.

I read that as just one being required at each end although the bracketed s suggests that a single point could suffice. Single seater drivers are arguing that their roll hoop is adequate as it can be accessed from both front and rear and could be used to pull the car out of a gravel trap in either direction - I'll leave them to argue that one out themselves!

I have two factory-style tie down loops at the front. The original was on the off-side but the winch cable fouled the number plate getting it on and off the trailer so I added a near-side one so the winch has a straight pull.

At the rear I have a webbing loop attached to the bumper iron to floor bolts. It tucks neatly into the over-rider when not in use. It was fitted really as a token tow-point as they were not previously required. I might need to look at beefing that mounting up or finding a stronger mounting point for it - does anyone know how Spridget tow-bars are mounted?

Incidentally, at marshal training last year, Richard Weaver, who drives the Shelsley Walsh recovery truck, said he never trusts modern manufacturer tow points and always runs strops around something more solid like a suspension arm or axle, so that makes the new MSUK rule rather irrelevant.

EDIT
Just found the rule in Section Q for Circuit Racing - yes, two points required, sorry about that. C
C Mee

I looked into this the other day, before a race at Oulton. I could only find the bit that says substantial towing points should be fitted front and rear. I was looking for a friend who just had normal old style towing points on the car we were running.
When I was building my car a few years ago the new regulations were that two wire hoop style eyes were to be fitted front and rear so that is how I did mine. But I think they decided to hold off with it being mandatory so it is now in the Blue Book as recommended.

The front ones were easy and just attach to the original tow eye points but on thick ally plates. For the rear I welded a plate to the rear shackles and added an extra bolt to spread more load. So these are in effect sandwiched through the floor and have the added strength of the bracket to the rear chassis in the boot.

For quarter elliptical I’d make an angle iron spreader plate for the lower bracket and have an additional flat plate inside, a bit like you suggest.


The idea behind having two wire hoop towing eyes that extend from the body is so that a 50mm steel tube can be passed through them which has a central towing point. I think they refer to it as ‘snatch’ recovery while the safety car is running.

They were a lot of hassle to fit but I’ve made them so they are nicely tucked away and only the nylon pull tags can be seen. The marshals just have to pull the tags and the wire hoop is then pulled from behind the valance and extend about 6 inches out.
John Payne

Thanks, really helpful advice.

Colin - I am planning to go sprinting and hilclimbing (I should have not said race earlier).

Best wishes
Mike
M Wood

John's reference to 'snatch' recovery makes me realise that this is part of MSUK's response to Covid.

With marshals being forbidden to touch cars, last year at Loton and, I assume, other hill climbs, there was a Snatch Recovery team in a 4x4. It was their job to pull cars out of the scenery instead of having marshals manhandle them. A bunch of marshals would have done the job much more quickly but, as it was one of the special arrangements that made it possible for folk to come out and play it just had to be accepted.
C Mee

I have been meaning to ask about this too, so thanks for doing so Mike!

Painted my front toe eye bright yellow last week, but still pondering how to do the rear *strokes chin*.

Malc.
Malcolm

Two points.. so fitting a (rare) towbarkit doesnt to overcome that
A de Best

Arie, I'm not thinking of fitting a tow bar, I just figured that the tow bar must fit on strong mounting points on each side so presumably those points would be good places to locate the towing points.

C
C Mee

Im not expecting you to actualy fit a towbar but you got my point, see if you can find a photo of a sprite-midget towingbarkit and see where they would fit.
A de Best

Drawing from Bill Young





A de Best

Its been done, but maybe having a bumper there already makes it easier to bold on to bumperbrackets?





A de Best

Thanks Arie

Here's what my research has thrown up:

MGOC sell a tow bar but I can't tell how it mounts and all other tow bar sellers only show a generic tow bar image at the best.

But, as you've found out, it is possible.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/blue65pv544/4033614506/

I just hope that if two mounting points are strong enough to pull half a loaded Spridget that they'll be strong enough to pull a complete but empty one out of the scenery - unless it's only US spec rubber bumper cars that are strong enough!

I think I'll just do my best to keep it on the track so that I never have to find out.
C Mee

I've just posted this on Nigel's general thread "One for the real enthusiasts". From Ken Grasing's Sebring Sprite.


Dave O'Neill 2

Dave,
if you can stand it, in the vid is Uncle Ken with one off the car in his hand. And unless I dreamt it, possibly other shots of them showing more shape to them, perhaps on the other cars I can't remember now.
Nigel Atkins

I was almost right.

From 13:52 in the video Steve shows the front tow hooks, he drew up in CAD, for FIA rules.
Nigel Atkins

The Ken Grasing rear tie down points looks similar to front towing/lifting eyes for Series Land Rovers (which come in two versions apparently), pity they are so expensive:

Land Rover part number NRC5942
https://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php/126389/5497/engine_listing_bracket___series_iia___iii

And similar but slightly different Britpart 242139:
https://www.britpart.com/all-parts/242139
&
https://www.island-4x4.co.uk/front-bumper-towing-britpart-242139-p-3835.html
&
https://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/242139-front-towing-ring-eye-defenderseries.html
&
https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-242139BP--SelectedCurrency-1?gclid=CjwKCAjwjuqDBhAGEiwAdX2cj1oeVS17_kgLrDamQg_TuA4wv_MnpAsEqXOnCsywsM6yBo0gPrALoxoCH-AQAvD_BwE

(Comparison of the two types: https://www.lrukforums.com/threads/d-ring-recovery-eyes.153508/)

This would need a reinforcement plate the other side of the boot floor and perhaps also angle iron forward.

Cheers
Mike

M Wood

One for Colin:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MG-Midget-Tow-Bar/254947138636?hash=item3b5c089c4c:g:7uAAAOSw7U5gfG9k

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

Thanks Mike

That's interesting, but I won't be bidding, the Sprite's slow enough as it is without adding all that weight!

I had an interesting conversation with Ashley Hinton today. I was enquiring about gauges of steel for inner sills (16g) and cross-members (18g) as I've found a bit of rust (understatement).

Somehow we got onto tie down and tow bar mounting points - his MkIII had one. He confirmed that the primary mounting was the bumper iron mounts BUT with fairly significant reinforcement. When my current rust issue is resolved I'll take a look at how I can strengthen the bumper mounts, hopefully with a bolt-on rather than weld-on solution.

Will you be taking to the hills this year? I'm hoping to have the Sprite ready in time for Loton's July event.

Cheers.

Colin
C Mee

Colin,

Did the say the inner sills were 16swg? From memory when I measured some they were about 2mm which would be 14swg.
David Billington

David,

Ashley definitely said 16 gauge, I also noted 1.5mm but he quoted to more decimal places. A reference table I found gives 16 gauge as 0.064” / 1.626mm.

I also got in touch with Terry Horler over the weekend, here's Terry's message: "The inner sill is, if I remember correctly, 0.0625" (16swg) thickness. Don't use anything less!"

I've got both 1.5mm and 2mm on order so I'll do some measuring to see which is closer to the existing sound sill metal.

C Mee

We recently had cause to check towing capability when i killed the MGF clutch at an event and the only other (family) vehicle there was the k Midget. Supercharged, so power not a problem (all hills handled in 5th gear with ease) it was where to tow from.
Decided on the bumper brackets in the end, thesr are well gusseted and being a split bumper there are two gussets each side. The Midget rear only just having its first outing since visiting the track wall (as above posts, go in backwards) made us a little twitchy about the new paint but this was shown to be unnecessary fretting.
No Midgets were damaged in this exercise despite the towed vehicle being much heavier, running onto the tow rope a couple of times and one SNAP take-up.
We did get dome curious looks when in the outer lane up hill overtaking slower traffic. In 5th.
Paul Walbran

Paul

No boasting please... I too can go up fairly steep hills in 5th - type 9 box incidentally - and can also accelerate up most of them in 5th...My boasting ended abruptly however when the low part of the sump under the plug hit a pothole, split open, and deposited the oil on the road - despite having a sump guard fitted. Our dear council will be receiving a letter. Some very dangerous potholes everywhere now - as well as the loose salt residue all over the place making motorcyling and cycling quite dangerous.
Oggers

Oggers, any photo's of your sumpguard installation?
A de Best

Arie

Some info on sump guards: http://www.mg-cars.net/mg-midget-sprite-technical-bbs/sump-guards-2016011419315725921.htm

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

This thread was discussed between 10/04/2021 and 23/04/2021

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.