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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Picture of Toyota 5 speed if possible

Hi,
Would anyone with a Toyota 5 speed conversion be kind enough to crawl under their car and take a picture of the clutch slave cylinder where it acts on the clutch fork lever.
On mine, there is a small piston which just seems to push against the clutch fork lever; there is no locating pin or anything. This piston also seems a bit floppy and does not seem to locate against the clutch fork lever accurately.
Clutch pedal completely loose so checked master cylinder and the new fluid was filthy, so currently awaiting a rebuild kit. No leaks anywhere on system and suspect master cylinder but also slave cylinder pushrods as described above.
All help appreciated!
aj robinson

which bellhousing are you using? I just removed and sold one with the Dellow bellhousing and it used the standard midget slave cyl


David Smith

another angle


David Smith

Hi David,
Conversion done by frontline many moons ago. Not like yours. It's not a midget clutch slave as the 2 lugs are on the same side of the cylinder and there is no pin connecting the pushrods to the clutch fork.
I will try and get a picture.
Regards,
Andrew
aj robinson

Hi Dave, just wondering where you got your bell housing from for that conversion.

Brian
brian s

it's an old conversion, done probably about 15 to 20 years ago. As I said it's a Dellow bellhousing. Dellow are an Australian company who used to make them in batches of 50 I believe, and they were imported by Charlie Ware of the Morris Minor centre in Bath, also Minor Mania brought some in.
There are books with this stuff in!
David Smith

Any use?


Motley 5

Another


Motley 5

When I had the Frontline Toyota conversion (adapter plate and original bellhousing) it used the original Toyota slave cylinder (two lugs on the same side). This had an integral pushrod (by that I mean the pushrod was a part of / held in place by the bellows gaiter over the end of the slave cylinder. The rounded end of the push rod acting against a dimple in the release arm.
Jeremy Cogman

Thanks everyone. Mine is definitely a Toyota slave. Replaced seals on master cylinder today and bled clutch. Better pedal feel but still can't engage any gear when engine running., but I can engage all gears when engine stopped. Am I missing something obvious ?
aj robinson

Hi, tried to upload pictures but nothing happened for some reason...
aj robinson

hope this works


aj robinson

I have a Toyota 5 speed, the bell housing came from the Morris Minor centre in Bath although I believe Frontline used the same supplier. I had a lot of trouble getting the clutch to work send in the end I used a Morris Minor fork and a 1275 slave cylinder, the moggie fork has a hole through which the pushrod passes. I made the pushrod from a long 3/8 bolt with a wheel nut on the end, the domed part of the wheel nut engages with the hole in the fork. This arrangement allows me to adjust the length of the pushrod so that the bearing is just clear of the cover plate. I will see if I can find some pictures.
M G Bennett

Yet another post about clutch release probs with 5 speed conversions!



Glad my 1500 overdrive conversion uses standard BL stuff.
SR Smith 1

Bit unfair! The Toyota gearbox has been into car a very long time and its been super smooth throughout. Still not sure if its the clutch or hydraulics, possibly the slave cylinder.
aj robinson

We have the Minor Mania (Dellow) Toyota T50 conversion in our 1380 Minor (so have the mechanical clutch linkage). Superb box.

I think there are 2 versions of the T50 conversion:

The 'Dellow' based one with a new bellhousing, which bolts straight on to the back of the A-Series engine and uses the standard A-Series clutch mechanism and release arm (hydraulic or mechanical) on a special mounting bracket inside the bellhousing.

The 'Frontline' one that uses the standard Toyota bellhousing and an adaptor plate between the gearbox and engine. Retains the Toyota slave cylinder.

Did someone do a conversion using a Datsun 5-spd gearbox?

The attached picture is from the Toyota Workshop Manual for the T50 gearbox, and shows the 2-bolt fixing and dome-ended pushrod. If anyone would like a pdf copy of the Manual, and/or the detailed Toyota T50 parts list please contact me.



Richard Wale

Hi Richard,
Thanks for the image. I would be VERY grateful for a PDF of each.
Many thanks,
Andrew
PS Anyone any thoughts on why it won't go into gear with engine running? Starting to think its the clutch itself
aj robinson

Hi Andrew,

Manuals have been emailed to you.

Maybe new seals in the slave cylinder? Also make sure that the piston/rod moves freely in the bore, as it needs to move forward under a light internal spring pressure to be 'self-adjusting'.

Is the internal spring present?

If a Sprite/Midget is anything like my son's MGB, it is a real pig to bleed the clutch.

Richard
Richard Wale

Thanks for the email Richard, much appreciated. It shows what an excellent resource this bulletin board is.
Strangely, no leaks at all from the slave. Its a bugger to get at but will try to remove it 'in situ' and see if the internal spring is present. Also need to check the piston acts positively on the arm of the clutch fork.
Bleeding is a pig, but the PO fitted a remote bleed on the slave so a bit easier.
And thanks to everyone else for helping.
aj robinson

On my Frontline conversion the slave cylinder was bolted on from inside the bellhousing so I hope you don't have to change it.

Have you laid under the (well supported) car whilst someone else pushes the pedal to see if anything is happening?

Could the arm have fallen off it's strange mushroom like pivot.

Have you tried a pressure bleed (i.e. eazi-bleed or similar).

Jeremy Cogman

Hi Jeremy,
Used eazibleed and confident the system is bled thoroughly. From under the car the slave cylinder is moving the clutch fork but not very much. No leaks anywhere. Slave cylinder bolts are on the outside but difficult to get to. Can't reach the hydraulic line at all but I can reach the bleed screw. PITA! Wondering if I should bite the bullet and pull the gearbox. And probably the engine.,,,
aj robinson

Andrew,

Is the easy bleed a vacuum type unit? If so, for some tough bleeding jobs the action is too gentle and it may need the two person pump and dump action to blast the air out. I've got a Saab 96 that is stubborn about bleeding the clutch. I was just about to disassemble the master again to look for mistakes in my rebuild when I decided to try one more time by cracking the line instead of the nipple. One time with that and it was perfect. I have no idea why.

Also, with a pump-type oil can dedicated to brake fluid you can pump the fluid in from the bottom through the nipple with a hose. Don't forget to lower the level in the master before doing this.

Charley
C R Huff

Just remembered one of the problems with setup that made a big difference. The pushrod between the pedal and the master cylinder was too long, shortening it by just a bit did the trick. I think the problem was that with the pedal fully released, the piston in the cylinder was covering the hole to the pipe meaning that all the fluid could not return.
M G Bennett

Eazibleed uses air from your spare tyre to push fluid from a plastic bottle through the hydraulic lines. Very good tool. I'm confident the system is bled. The slave is moving but not enough I think. I'm going to replace the master and see if that gives the slave more oomph!
Will be quicker and cheaper than removing the gearbox and probably the engine. The slave is almost impossible to access.
aj robinson

This thread was discussed between 21/05/2014 and 24/05/2014

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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