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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Peter May top link kit

Question: has anyone out there got experience using Peter May's top link kit on their front dampers?

item 1.18.1 on this link below:
http://www.petermayengineering.co.uk/specialistProducts.htm#1.18.1

I understand the benefit of the Front Line design to triangulate that upper arm to minimize deformation under load, but I like my lever arm dampers and this Peter May kit looks like a neat idea to accomplish the one without giving up the other.

My question is whether anyone has used them that can tell me whether they could feel the difference enough to make it worth the effort for a road car (I am not racing, which would be whole 'nother story).

The thing is that 180GBP is a lot for something that I might not be able to feel, so I thought I would ask around here about it.

Full disclosure: I am running wire wheels (I like the look), poly bushings all around, stock springs lowered 1/2", and drive spiritedly, but am realistic about what such an old design is capable of.


Norm "curious" Kerr


Norm Kerr

Sorry Norm, i have no experience with the PM kit but i can tell you the Frontline kit is very noticeble!
To me it was one of the best money-result mods ive done on my car.
I am however very intrested to hear experiences of those with the PM-kit
Arie de Best

I've got Frontline front, rear and 5 speed conversions kits

My front kit also has 11/16 ARB, 1" lower 340lb springs and polyurethane bushes

Combined the kit makes a noteable improvement

I would very strongly recommend if you want Frontline stuff that you buy from places like MGOC or MOSS

I can not recommend their 5 speed converstion kit
Nigel Atkins

Norm,

Our race car runs in Class B which states we have to use the original damper as a top link.

We use the Peter May kit, with additionally de-valving the lever arms and fitting a monotube damper kit using the Frontline bottom link and a custom top link.

In my view it performs at least as well as the Frontline kit (remember we are on slicks) for FAR less price!
Deborah Evans

Yeah I've had one Norm. It's great if you're running standard shockers. Tightened up the front end a treat, car was the best-handling I'd ever run. Crisp and could change line through a corner if required.

I ran with (P May) 11/16 ARB, solid ARB mounts, negative camber top trunnions, -2" (IIRC) 400lbs springs and poly bushes from Magic midget.

'Twas a bit harsh on the road mind youi, leapt from bump to bump. Great on the track tho!
Max max-at-midgetmax-dot-com

I run a similar setup to Max and I agree with him on all his comments!

John Turner
John Turner (Midget & MGB)

As an alternative I've run Austin Westminster twin lever arm shocks on the Frog since I first built it back in 1972. Basically a fit and forget mod, I think I've only had to replace them twice in 38 years.
F Pollock

Thanks folks! I really appreciate your input.

John, Austin Westminster dampers - the arms are the same length as ours and everything? What a cool idea!



Norm
Norm Kerr

The Westminster shocks use 2 existing mounting holes but you drill and tap 2 more. The arms give zero camber nominal with the standard fulcrum pin. The advantage of using these - apart from cost and engineering simplicity, is that the loads are received from the kingpin centerline so the spring pan and bushing has an easier time.
F Pollock

Deborah
not a fair price comparison

Frontline
382 for the kit containing
top arm with built in negative camber and an adjustable shock.

Peter may
94 for a negative top trunion kit
179 for the top link kit
makes 273
then you have 110 quid to go and get some new or properly rebuild adjustable leverarms.

if you want to compare then do it on an equal basis

Not saying the toplink is a bad way to go certanly not!
Only that the FL kit is competativly priced and a good solution to the problem.

If i were to do the front again i propably would not go the FL route again but get some Peter Caldwell shocks and a toplink/neg camber kit.
It has a bigger cool factor
Onno Könemann

Norm
I have the Peter May kit, and am very happy with it, it does improve the stability.
The only thing they don't tell you is that you have to move the front brake lines, as the second link comes through the bulkhead at the same position as the brake union.(rigid to flex.)

Dave
Dave Barrow

Yes, sorry, forgot to mention the brakes.

On my modsports car 20 years or so back, I used MGB shocks which are triangulated already. We made a spacer plate which bolted on through the standard 3 holes and was drilled for the 4-bolt B shock to sit on top. We then has to turn the top trunnion round to get the camber right.

Was it worth it? Well the PMay triangulation kit would have been easier/cheaper if it had been available, and when we had a bang with it at Wiscombe the inner bolts pulled out. So not really!
Max max-at-midgetmax-dot-com

Re. Dave Barrow's point about the need to move the brake hose - from my experience, poor instructions is a common issue with PM kit. He is helpful when asked but he should really have got his act together by now so that installation instructions are 'idiot' proof!
John Turner (Midget & MGB)

I made my own with the end of a mini steering arm with trackrod end, as I'm a poor student :)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34910348@N08/3234431713/

seems to be a lot more stable on turn in and braking (compared to my dads unmodified one), dampers are from a mini as well and i had to move the brake pipe. Theory is it won't wear the bottom pin out quite as fast, seems to be OK so far but have only done about 8K on it, blew up the gearbox twice :(
Rob Armstrong

>>>>>>>>He is helpful when asked but he should really have got his act together by now so that installation instructions are 'idiot' proof!

It's a common fault amongst skilled engineers, they assume we're all as techie as them! I had regular battles with Merlin when I worked in there, trying to point out that I (and loads of others) were not idiots for not understanding how to fit parts. "Better instructions" I used to shout. "Why" the boss would shout back, "if they can't work out how to fit it they shouldn't be racing drivers!"

Happy days.
Max max-at-midgetmax-dot-com

Indeed Max; that really is no excuse. (Could Lewis Hamilton fit a set of points to a Midget? I doubt it. But he's at least a good a driver as many who've bought parts from Merlin.)

Some years back, I fitted a rear damper conversion from well-known company. Instructions said 'fit damper to bottom bolt, then insert top bolt...'

This is near impossible, since the alignment of the damper top bush with the (old) restaining strap holes won't allow the bolt straight through! And there's very little 'give' to allow alignment, since the damper is fixed at the bottom.

Much easier to do the top bolt first, and then fit damper to bottom bolt left slighly loose, so the bolt will find its own way into the damper bush.

But, what do I know??!!

Actually ... my engineering training taught me to allow for the average (or slightly below average) expected user in product design / instructions etc. That way, the company doesn't have 100s of phone calls to sort out the trivially obvious (which clearly isn't obvious or 100s wouldn't have got stuck!).

With all the questions I have on Kseries wiring and setup, I think I should re-write the manual to a well-known (and otherwise thoroughly excellent) after-market ECU...

A
Anthony Cutler

what I hate about engineers and instructions are they never put enough warnings in the instructions, i mean seriouly How am I supposed to know that you cant take a bath with and electric bench grinder, HELLO, that would been nice to have known before I plugged it in while secured in my bubble bath.

or running across the yard with a sharpend long still spike just inches from my eyeball.. if they dont tell you these things how am I supposed to know thats a bad idea.

well I got to put on my neck tie and go look at the fan belts with the engine running full bore...I'll have to put my head right next to the belt to see if its okay so luckly my neck tie will help reduce the windage to my eyes... least thats a super safe thing to do... after all if it wasnt, thered be some kind of instructions/warnings telling me not to. LOL

Prop
Prop

Prop, that isn't engineers, that's lawyers.


Norm
Norm Kerr

Norm, that's not Lawyers that's the good ole US of A!

:D

Andrew McGee

F Pollock,

"The Westminster shocks use 2 existing mounting holes but you drill and tap 2 more. The arms give zero camber nominal with the standard fulcrum pin. The advantage of using these - "

Does anybody know how much, and where to get a pair of these shocks. I fancy giving this a go.
Lawrence Slater

I chose to combine the Frontline upper with strengthend lower wishbones. B-I-G difference! Now the car handles and brakes the way it should have from the beginning. Adding a Panhard rod to control the rear made it track nice and true. Next development will be a Mumford link to restore the rear Roll Center to where the Healeys had it with the original quarter elliptic rear suspension design.
Stephen Strange

Question for the people with frontline kits (as I have one waiting for me to finish painting). The lower shock absorber mount is bolted across the bottom of the wishbone pan. Does this make it impossible to use the long bolt method to fit the springs?

graeme
graeme jackson

I dont know about the long bolt method, but I just push the wishbone down as far as it goes, and lever the springs in place, then use a scissor jack to compress the spring to re-attach the top trunnion.

I've done this ever since I got the car in 1977, and did the same when I replace the springs after I fitted the FL kit.

I assume by the long bolt method you are talking about dropping the plate in the wishbone and fitting the spring that way. I would imagine you could still do that as the bar acroos the bottom of the pan is clear of the spring plate on my kit.

Note though, my kit is a 1998 front line kit so if they have resited the shock bar it may be different.

Lawrence Slater

This thread was discussed between 21/06/2010 and 28/06/2011

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