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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Patches - remove or leave?

I'm slowly working my way through my assessment of the work required on my 'lock-up find' 1500 midget. I've found lots of patches to the bodywork and the car obviously had a 'makeover' some years ago (see previous thread about sill replacement). What I'm wondering is whether it is good practice to leave those parts of previous patches in place where they are sound. In some instances this might mean adding a patch to the edge of a patch. Or is it better to cut out such old patches and make a single new patch. The latter might be neater but would mean removing a lot more metal (some of which is quite sound). I'm new to bodywork repairs so this may be a silly question with an obvious answer, so forgive me if it is!

Chris
Chris H (1970 Midget 1275)

I'm going for the 'if a jobs worth doing' approach to mine. Cut out all the old crap and bodges and patches and weld in new panels.

Maybe my project has made me cynical but patches are just a way for a garage to do a crappy, half ar*ed job of repairing something. If you patch over the rust and can no longer see it then it must no longer be rusting underneath sort of mentality.

Cars can fail their MOT for too many patches in one area (as mine did with upto 4 layers of metal in the floor!).

Thats my two pennth anyway! :-)

Cheers,
Malcolm
M Le Chevalier

I've just finished doing the bodywork on mine. I went down Malcolm's route of ripping out anything that looked suspect and welding in new panels. It ended up taking me a year longer to get the body straight but I do think it was worth it.
In no particular order, these panels have been replaced..
Full floor
Doors
rear wings (outer)
inner footwell panels
a posts
A post covers
inner sills
outer sills
rear panel
right hand front inner wheel arch
front panel assembly.
inner bulkead and spring hanger box sections

I did have to weld in patches in a few places such as the inner rear wheelarches that aren't available for round arches and a couple of places on the bootfloor.

graeme jackson

I think it all depends on what you want from the car

In my job as a house painter there are 2 approaches to a worn out old house

1 ....its and old junk house and the people just want to make it look okay and not spend a kings ransom...so its a brush over the spiders and flaws

2 ....its a complete remodel removing wall board and will look vary nice after lots of work and even more outlay in cash

What I'm saying is. If you remove the patches then expect a lot of hidden work and issues. It will be a mess and vary expensive .

But.sometimes on a bad job its best to don't open up a box of rotten meat if you don't have to just brush over the top and call it a day

It really depends on what goals you want to accomplish with the car
Prop

Chris,

Mine is another vote for cutting out old patches

With all of the patches I have taken out of mine the previous 'repairs' hadn't even bothered to cut out the rot from underneath and just welded a patch over it, so the new patch wouldn't last 5 minutes anyway.

Once you are back to good metal then there is no structural reason not to repair with a fully seam welded patch - I just find they never look great and usually distort the surrounding metal (well mine did anyway) so I have built up an almost unhealthy tendency to replace panels rather than patch

Graeme,

Looks good from your profile photo, do you have a build thread or a photo account you are willing to share (nosey sorry)

Cheers

Spencer

S Deakin

As has been said above, depends upon what you want from the project. in my opinion if the patch is sound and not harboring any rot, you're probably best to leave it unless you are looking for perfection. as soon as you start to need to add a patch onto a patch, I suggest cutting it right back to good tin and starting with a new patch or repair panel as appropriate. I've tried the 'just add a patch' approach and its usually ended up taking longer and me not being totally happy with the job.

however, contrary to what others have said, I wouldn't automatically cut a patch out unless there was a reason to do so.

just my tuppence worth...

-craig
C Robertson

Thanks for the opinions. I'm really just after getting this car back on the road (my other Midget is the Class 1 version) so don't want to spend a fortune. Nonetheless, the comments about patching over rusty areas is spot on - I'm finding a lot of that! Where I'm in doubt about what's behind the patch I'm going to cut it out, but if it looks sound I'll leave it.

Also today I tried to remove the off-side 'bolt on' front wing only to find it is a 'weld on' wing. Looks like I'm going to have to cut that off as well. The sad thing is I was told (and I believe it) that this was a professional restoration 20 years ago but it's not really of a professional standard in my view!

Chris
Chris H (1970 Midget 1275)

Use a toffee hammer to test patches. If they ring they are probably OK. A dull donk noise will indicate that they are not sound, or are welded over rusted metal. Generally I would err on cutting out patches and fitting full panels as per original seams. Doesn't mean that you cannot make the panels yourself in many cases.
Guy

Spencer.
I didn't have a build thread but i do now...
http://www2.mgcars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgbbs&mode=thread&access=&subject=110&source=T&thread=2011082314013825988

cheers
graeme jackson

Graeme,

Cheers, I repeat it looks really good

I am now going to replace my full floor pan as well having carried out a repair near the spring hanger, but I would rather replace the lot as it's not too bad price wise considering the size and detail of the panel.

Plus I hacked the area (floor pan) around the type 9 gearbox which I am not happy with

Cheers

Spencer
S Deakin

Spencer - out of curiosity, whereabouts in the West midlands are you? I'm in Wolverhampton.

Chris
Chris H (1970 Midget 1275)

Chris,

I am in Walsall, Rushall specifically, so 10 mins or less from J10.

Spencer
S Deakin

Perhaps we should get together and compare notes on restoration!!!
Chris H (1970 Midget 1275)

This thread was discussed between 22/08/2011 and 26/08/2011

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.