MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Oily Rear Brakes Again

Please - has anybody ever managed to achieve a good seal between the rear hub and the axle flange?
I never have, in numerous attempts over the last twenty years.

I understand that the paper gasket has to be compressed before the abutment shoulder of the shaft pulls up against the bearing races, and my manual says the gasket should be about 0.010 and no thinner, "otherwise an oil leak will invariably result." When I took the axle out, I could see that the gasket had been well compressed, but everything was drenched in oil.

Quaere:- (i) Does everybody have this problem? (ii) What gasket thickness do you use? (iii) Should I just use Blue Hylomar and try to forget? (iv) How does the gasket work with the O-ring?
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Do you have an O-ring fitted?
Les Robinson

I must admit I don't have a problem. I do use blue hylomar on both the hub and the half shaft together with the gasket and O ring. Beware some replacement O rings are thinner than original. I also have a decent supply of NOS gaskets to ensure the gasket thickness is correct. Happy to let you have a couple.
Bob Beaumont

Last time I put mine back on, new 0 rings and gaskets and I have some Loctite MR5922 non hardening gasket sealant. (very sticky and messy to apply)

Ensure all mating surfaces are super clean and flat.

Then, fit the halfshaft and the screw.

Then fit the wheelnuts with some washers and tighten.

Tighten the screw

Tighten the wheelnuts a little more

Tighten the screw

Leave a while and tighten the screw again.

You get much more compression this way and a tighter fit.

Assumes your oil seal at the other end of the hub is not leaking!
Tim C

Are you sure it isn't the bearing seal behind the hub?
GuyW

Echo Guy's question.
anamnesis

No I don't have this problem. I have never done anything special about fitting the halfshaft. Whatever you do the wheel nuts will clamp it all together. If you have the correct gasket and O-ring it should not leak. But the oilseal can leak, and I have fitted a Speedi-Sleeve to one of my hubs.
Les Rose

Thank you for all this. I honestly can't remember if I did the seals and bearings ten years ago. I need to dig out the pictures.
If it were the seals, what would the path of the oil be, to reach the brake drums etc.?
Nick and Cherry Scoop

I never had any leaks from the flange and I didn’t use any sealant, just genuine Rover gaskets and o-rings.

If the seal behind the bearing is leaking, the oil will come out from behind the hub and will either run down the backplate to the drum, or run down the outside of the hub and drip off the bottom.

When the car is in motion, the oil will be centrifuged all over the place.
Dave O'Neill 2

When I restored my 65 I first replaced the o ring and paper gasket on the rear hub.
It leaked on both sides. So I replaced the bearings and oil seals.
Sorted it on one side but other still leaked a bit.
I put it down to warn / pitted half shaft causing the oil seal not to do its job.
Next step is either new half shafts or a speedi sleeve.
Will get round to it one day
James Paul

For those that have used a speedisleeve on the back axle ends, what is the process? Is the sleeve a standard size for this application or is it a special order item requiring the buyer to provide an accurate measurement.
GuyW

Looks like I did not replace the seals last time. Can't think why not, as the body was away for ages, and I remember the back axle sitting on trestles in the garage.
Dave, where did you get genuine Rover bits?
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Nick

I bought them from Roversport/Unipart at Cowley back in the nineties, when I was racing A35 & Spridget.

The standard supply multiples for most items was 10, so they would keep me going for quite a while. I once ordered some engine mounts and they sent me a box of 20.
Dave O'Neill 2

Nick
Malc Chevalier may still do a kit which includes different paper gasket thicknesses. I used one and it worked fine.
Bill B

How I wish I had the instincts of an engineer.

Confronted by a mess of black gunge - every brake component coated - did I inspect the shaft flange/hub face joint? No.
Was the joint wet/dripping? Probably not.
After some careful work with my tiniest screwdriver, I managed to prise the two faces apart.

Conclusion? Failed gasket.

I hangs my head in shame.

Replacing the seal, should I put a new bearing in? And, can those jobs be done without BMC service tools (drifts)?
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Size of spanner for locknut? I make it 1 7/8"
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Guy, While speedi sleeves come in different sizes there is only size for the Sprite/midget with the part number CR 99174. It is easily fitted and in my experience doesn't need anything to secure it. it does come with a tool to slide/press it on the axle but that may be a little on the short side and some very gentle persuasion (rubber or nylon faced hammer) to get it fully home. You'd be able to manage it without any trouble or cut fingers.
Daniel

Yes, 1 & 7/8 in socket required.

I have one, and the 3/4 to 1/2 drive reducer.

Happy to lend but would have to post, given journey to Hereford from Winchester is a bit far for a drop off! - unless you happen to be in the area...
Tim C

Thanks Tim. I'm trying to borrow locally.
Are there good coffee shops in Winchester?
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Don’t forget, the left hand nut has a left hand thread. As least it should have.

ISTR reading Geoffrey Healey’s book and he said that they had a problem with the nut coming undone on early Frogeyes, as they had a right hand thread, as did the A30/35.

I once spent a lot of time trying to remove the LH nut from an A30 axle, thinking it was a LH thread. It wasn’t helped by the fact that the axle wasn’t attached to a car.
Dave O'Neill 2

My ha’ pence worth.
Prior to fitting a new gasket / O-ring fit the half shaft and gauge the gap with feelers.
New gaskets come in varying thicknesses. Choose a gasket a couple of thou’ thicker than the gap to allow a fit with a bit of compression. Choose a gasket that is too thick and the halfshaft wont grip the bearing thus reducing lateral grip. Use Well-seal on the gasket if you wish.
If oil is breaching the neoprene oil seal on the rear of the hub consider using, as I do on one car, a sealed bearing.
Malcolm Le-Chevalier used to supply a selection of different thickness gaskets if you can find him on Fb. He also does a useful shocker refresher kit and a kit for triangulating the top shocker arm.
Alan Anstead

"Are there good coffee shops in Winchester?"

I have not been into to the town centre for a couple of years, But I understand that every other retail outlet there now sells coffee!
Tim C

Thanks everybody. Every here post has a gem of information.
Thank you.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

I've got two hub nut 'sockets'. 😉.


anamnesis

I have exactly the same sized pair of stilsons, which I used to remove the old 'nuts' which were quite beaten up by previous owner. Good for getting off, not as good for getting on.
Tim C

I used my Stilsons for years, for both off and on, no problems at all.

I only made my 'socket' following a debate here, as an experiment, to use a torque wrench to test how tight I was making the nut with my Stilsons.

My stilsons get it more than tight enough. But I use my socket now because I've got it, rude not to. And it's easier to take off my shelf, than open the tool box where I keep my Stilsons. 😅.



anamnesis

I did get the Stilsons out, but the studs were too in the way.
BTW, I haven't found a torque wrench setting for the nut, but I imagine there isn't one, since it has to go tight up against the bearing, and gets locked there.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

That's because there isn't a quoted torque figure for the rear hub nuts.

FT. And not the pink paper. 🤣.

anamnesis

Back in the mists of time someone misread, or misunderstood the WSM and thought that the pinion net torque was the half shaft torque. It is easy to assume a high torque is needed to hold the wheel and 'axle shaft' on so in some ways the confusion is not surprising. The error is one of those things that has just stuck and this torque load figure is regularly repeated.

The nut has a very fine pitch thread for its size so excessive tightening isn't needed. Two grunts on an extended bar is about right so long as it's then properly secured with the tab washer. Someone here can convert that into imperial engineering units I am sure.
GuyW

Depending on how many times you want to remove/replace the nut, there is a genuine churchill hub nut tool 18G152 on evil bay 178254756196. £47.50 or offers.
It does make doing the job easier as its designed not to slip off the thin hub nut.
Bob Beaumont

IIRC the proper factory tool is double ended, so it also fits MGBs and, presumably, Morris Oxfords, etc.
Dave O'Neill 2

First time I've ever seen one of those in the wild. Quite nice to have, but a tad to dear just for a nice to have tool. Esp' when my home made jobby works very well.

Have you got one then Bob?

anamnesis

The MGB manual does quote a torque figure for the hub nut, which is 180 lb/ft.

Although the MGB axle is a slightly larger diameter, the nut is a similar thickness. I can't find one to measure, although I have a couple lurking somewhere.

I don't think I've ever used a torque wrench on a Spridget hub, just settling for FT, although I would imagine the figure to be somewhere north of 100 lb/ft.





Dave O'Neill 2

I've got to change the wheel bearing on my nearside soon. I'll check the torque before I undo it. Could be a while though as I'm getting lazy and a very mild rear wheel wobble doesn't feel too urgent. Maybe an autumn job.

anamnesis

I wouldn’t leave it too long, or you might snap the end off your halfshaft.
Dave O'Neill 2

The half shaft isn't that likely to snap as it's a semi-floating design and the halfshaft takes the weight of the car and bending loads, the bearing provides axial/radial location. That said I have had one of mine break at the mushroom end as it cracked around the radius between the shaft and flange, not that surprising having inspected it as the machining is quite rough and likely caused stress raisers. More common to break there in race cars with wide tyres than road cars. Double bearing kits are available to make it a fully floating axle.
David Billington

Yep. I'll get to it, but not doing as much mileage as at the beginning of this year.

When I had my Austin Metropolitan, I snapped several half shafts. In 49 years with my Sprite, I've not snapped one. Come to that, I've rarely changed a rear wheel bearing either.




anamnesis

Yes I have one of the original tools. I got it many years ago when a local garage closed down, in a job lot of bits and pieces. It does make life easier locking up the nut nice and tight. As Dave says it can also be used on B series axles as well.
Bob Beaumont

I did not know 180 lb/ft existed. Too big for either of my torque wrenches. I generally prefer the Californian one I inherited, but it only goes to 750 lb/in.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Nick

The 180lb/ft is for the larger MGB axle, so you don't need to go that far ;o)
Dave O'Neill 2

Last question: which supplier do you use?

MGOC offers bearing, oil seal, lockwasher, o-ring and gasket as a bundle, for less than the cost of the AH Spares bearing alone.

Probably the same manufacturer somewhere in the east, or might one set be better quality?

Or, who else do you go to?
Nick and Cherry Scoop

The bearing is a standard deep groove ball bearing 6207 IIRC. Pick your maker and price point, they can be had from top quality makers like SKF and others or cheap ones. As it's such a common size even quality ones aren't expensive but then some suppliers will just buy the cheapest for a bit more profit.
David Billington

Yep, 6207. Open originally. Unless you favour shielded.

https://www.bearingboys.co.uk/search.cgi?search=6207

And don't buy C3. Too much clearance. CN(0) is fine.

https://tflbearing.com/blog/understanding-the-importance-of-bearing-clearance.html

But if you want gaskets and seals of course, then the usual suppliers, but you have to check they supply the correct thickness gasket and rubber seal.

anamnesis

Thank you very much, David and Anam. What a choice of 6207s! I could see C3, but not CN(0), but I guess 'standard' would be a correct choice.

They are cheaper than the offerings from the specialist suppliers!

I don't know how to check whether the rubber seals supplied by AH Spares are correct. But it's very cheap to find out, by buying them.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

My parcel arrived from Bearing Boys this morning. Great service.
They look symmetrical. If they aren't, I assume the writing faces out?
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Writing out for convenience of reading the numbers. Being deep grove there is no one thrust side. Most of the action is radial rather than axial.

Did you buy budget or branded?

If not specified then yep, will be CN/standard.


anamnesis

I bought SKF, which I thought was Swedish, but they say ITALY on them.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Surprised they aren't made in China these days. Lol.

anamnesis


I use these:


In the Archive:

Growler
South
And I shall start raving about fully-sealed bearings (you know, the pre-lubed type with integral oil seals)

They're lovely. Last forever and supplement the existing oil seal- no more leaks, and no more damaged bearings from differential metal flakes.

SKF part# 6207zz
NSK part# 6207vvc-mav2

G

Posted 08 October 2002 at 21:56:17 UK time Up arrow Down arrow
Flip Brhl

6207zz would be a bearing with metal shields. The shields will keep out small debris but will allow a transfer of lubricant, 2RS would be a common suffix for a bearing with rubber seals.

I read an article years ago about gearbox design and how the engineers wondered why the bearings weren't lasting as long as the calculations said they should and found damage to the bearings from metal particles so they changed the bearings to shielded that kept the debris out but allowed lubricant transfer and those bearings lasted as expected. My thought after reading the article was that the engineers had never taken a manual gearbox apart and seen the metal debris inside.
David Billington

When replacing my hub bearings I used sealed ones, but removed the seal from the inside. The idea - not mine, was that the bearing still got lube from the axle, but the shield prevented or limited the oil escaping out the back, supplementing the lip seal.
Reading Flip & David's posts I doubt it was much of a good idea. Removing the inner seal still leaves it open to the larger diff debris and I dont know if the outer seal was a full rubber seal or a metal one which I guess wouldn't fully retain the oil, so not achieving what I expected either!
GuyW

My understanding was that rear wheel bearings lasted many thousands of miles but I'd never considered the risk of diff debris damage. How likely is this?
Bill B

Guy

The seal on the inside of the bearing is the one which is supplementing the lip seal. The bearing is lubricated from the outside. Unless you’ve mis-remembered?
Dave O'Neill 2

Guy, if you only want one seal you can buy them like that. For rubber seals its 6207RS and for metal 6207Z.

Trev
T Mason

David, just use of words. I meant inside and outside of the hub assembly. Not inside and outside in relation to the car.
GuyW

I agree with Bill. The originals didn't have shields. And yet they last well over 100000 miles.

Don't see the point in changing something that works perfectly well; even if it is only a couple of quid more.

What's the evidence they last longer with shields, and how much longer?

anamnesis

“ David, just use of words. I meant inside and outside of the hub assembly. Not inside and outside in relation to the car.”

Fair enough. Just wanted to clarify, as if someone sees this in the archives, they might try to do it, but the wrong way.
Dave O'Neill 2

This thread was discussed between 06/07/2026 and 17/07/2026

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.