MG-Cars.net

Welcome to our resource for MG Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - New Gearbox

Hi Guys

I am taking the plunge and getting a new gearbox fitted to my car, I am also going to get a new clutch and a roller release bearing instead of a carbon one.

Can anyone advise which supplier is best for a new box?

Rylan
R Williams

Have you considered a type9?
HALL JOHN

I did consider this, but I am not a fan of cutting the crossmember
R Williams

Hardy engenering?, I think they are also in Kent.
Arie de Best

They were going to be very expensive in terms of labour rates. I am looking at buying a recon box and having it fitted
R Williams

Rylan,

drop me an e mail with your phone number I may be able to help you

cheers
Andy
Andy Sebring

Hi Rylan,

Your box isn'treally that bad. Don't swap it for a recon. Get new synchros put in it.
Lawrence Slater

I had my gearbox rebuilt at Klassik Transmissions, http://www.klassiktrans.co.uk from a recommendation on here.

Only been a few months but so far so good.

Malc
Malc Gilliver

Paying to switch a gear box is not going to be cheap

Im taking lawerances side ... get yours rebuilt

Another option... look to someone here or at the club level and pay them to do the dirty deed

Or pull the box yourself... its certianly not a tough job... granted, I wouldnt rebuild it myself

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

the cost of getting it rebuilt is more than a rebuilt gearbox :(

I am not a rich man :) and do not have the skills/bravery to diy it!
R Williams

****the cost of getting it rebuilt is more than a rebuilt gearbox :(****


Hmmm....

Im sure there are words of wisdom to comment on your above statement...but im at a loss.

Perhaps its time to hit the boss up for a raise or deliver some pizza on the weekends

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

unless Andy can sort you out something then getting a good quality rebuild on your box or a good quality reconditioned box will need the work done by the likes of those mentioned already, and it wont ever be cheap

surely the Kent massive could help you whip the engine and gearbox out so you can send/take your g/box to be rebuilt if it's in generally good condition otherwise

from what I've read for many years now there have been many poor quality reconditioned gearboxes about (possibly some of them from having the work done to avoid expense

ETA: I was typing as you were posting Rylan but I'm with Prop that doesn't make sense if you're comparing like for like quality
Nigel Atkins

What about finding a good used one on ebay... or club member

It may not be perfect but way cheaper then a fresh rebuilt or reconditioned from some unknown guy in the back room with a bottle of lucas oil treatment and a rattle can of spray paint....

yepp a 10 minute overhaul

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

I have seen AH Spares offer a recon 1275 gearbox at £425.

Obviously it is of a unknown quality in that sense.

Nigel's point about poor quality gearboxes is a worry I admit, but then a warranty is some help.

Andy has mentioned someone who could do the swap work but not the rebuild.

Klassic transmissions will not be cheap but Hardy Engineering is the same, Hardy is recommended by 2 people.

Prop, a rise would be nice but I don't think that will happen due to the state of the economy, so I do the best with what I have from part time stewarding with the local council :)

Hardy quoted about £600 for a rebuild before inspection etc
R Williams

For $600, Id hire lawerance to teach me how to rebuild the tranny and a beer to boot at the end of the day

Are there no good used ones laying around for $100 on somebodys shelf or garden

Curious... whats wrong with yours... can it just be repaired and not a full on rebuild

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

12 months warranty on the box but if it's fitted by someone else there's an argument as to who's at fault the box or installation and then you have to remove the engine and box to have the g/box tested and replaced - believe me I know !!

a couple of years ago I was talking about the fact that my type-9 was supposed to be a reconditioned gearbox (from those lying b*stards con-men conversion specialists) and a friend said he'd expect a good reconditioning of an existing box to cost at least £500 plus VAT (and this was 3 years back)

lever arm dampers are reconned cheaply, look how long they last
Nigel Atkins

Fine when cold.

Very stiff when warm

Synchro on 4th is non existant, have to let the revs drop off completely to change gear without grinding.

Synchro on second tired, most often clicks when changed.

4th very noisy above 2500rpm, almost like a coffee grinder.

I think I have a slippy clutch as well, 70mph can be ~4500 rpm one way and then ~5500rpm later

I also have drag on the engine as well
R Williams

Yeah know... yours is a 1500 ???

Have you looked into the 5 speed from a mazda 280zx... I want to say there was a kit for that at some point

Those boxes run forever and common in salvage yard .. $200 maybe, id google search this out a bit more, considering you looking at $1000 to $1500 give or take to farm this whole project out

Fall is almkst here.. people pay good money to remove tree leaves from gutters...just saying

Do you have lots of crap in the basment and garage... when we cleaned out dads garage in a yard sell last spring.. we made $2400 in one day for mom, just selling loads of crap that dad collected over the years before his death

Prop

Prop and the Blackhole Midget

the 1500 is long gone, I have a 1964 Sprite mk3 with a 1275 engine.

I have to borrow my family garage as I live at home :) Planning to move out asap though!

I may just get one from AH Spares and see what happens
R Williams

Well thats not good ither....yepp looks like a new clutch is in order as well... $300 ??? While there rebuilding the tranny

I think, id seriously consider doing this work yourself....pulling the engine,,/tranny and install a new clutch is not a big deal,

What you would spend haveing someone else do the engine /tranny pull and Install a new clutch you could easily afford to have someone rebuild the tranny for you and probably still have money left over for a ballon animal at the carnival

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Heck... your in luck dude !!!

Go to walmart, or comparable auto store

Get a quart of lucas oil treatment or slick 50 remove about 1/3 rd quart of oil from the transmission and replace the same amount with lucas oil treatment

It will be like brand new... nice and quite and easily last long enough to save for a year to get a new rebuilt tranny

It has to be lucas oil treatment or slick 50'''I like the lucas myself

It did wonders for my old ribby before I got the datsun tranny

What do you have to loose...

As to the clutch... stay off it as much as possiable and learn to drive clutchless aka double clutching... that will save your clutch even further until you can afford to fix it

Btw... if your mom and dad isnt screaming at you... stay home, and just rent a room by the hour to do your shagging...it wont get any cheaper moving out at this point

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

I have saved up to get it fixed properly.

I rent a room per month as it is, no shagging i'm afraid prop due to perpetual singleness!

I do try not to ride the clutch as much as possible
R Williams

Just curious...

What transmission fluid to you have in your box....it should be 20/50W motor oil, NOT transmission fluid, only classic car repair shops will know this, pros and jiffy quick lube shops will not know this and try to install tranny fluid

It does sound if yours is suffering from this mistake

Dont knock being a life long batcholor...freedom is a good thing....hahaha

But seriously give the lucas oil treatment a try... I wouldnt recommend more then a 1/2 quart...plenty in the archives on this....both pro and negitive... I never saw or experianced any of the negitive....just the positive

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Worth remembering....do not settle for the smooth box, you want the ribby...the ribby is a much better and stable box and will get alot more longivity over the smooth cased box

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Rylan, have you had a quote from Ken at KlassikTrans? He does my race 'boxes and last time was around 150 labour plus parts, which you can price up. A bearing set is around 75, gaskets are peanuts. IIRC the Minispares baulk rings are 15-ish?
David Smith

Speak to Mark at Fishers?
Alan
Alan Anstead

Klassic charged me £350 inc VAT for a rebuild and that gearbox needed new bearings, shafts, and gears !!!

As mentioned before it's only been in a couple of months, but I have 'worked it' fairly hard !

Malc

Malc Gilliver

I spoke to the usual suppliers today and Fishers.

Nobody has a gearbox in stock, they would need me to send mine in so it can be appraised and then rebuilt.

AH Spares are waiting for 2 to come back from abroad but cannot give a time frame

My search continues, I may even try to find a cheap knackered one and rebuild it myself!
R Williams

That's a drag Rylan. The description of your box is vastly different to when I drove it a few months back. What happened? It wasn't as noisey as you describe it now, and although you could tell it needed synchros, it wasn't that bad. But if it is that bad now, then you've nothing to lose by exchange for a decently built one.

Before you go ahead though, consider this. How long are you going to keep the car? How many miles are you expecting to do in that period? You could end up having to do it all again in less time than you think.

Don't rule out a Type 9 because you don't fancy cutting the cross member. It doesn't harm the strength of the car. You put in a plate to take the place of the member you remove. The Type9 will out last the 1275 box by many years and many miles, and in the long run may save you money and hassle.

But if you want to keep it original, then you've no choice I guess but to bite the bullet and buy the best you can find ---, bearing in mind that the most expensive may not be the best. So read the advice on here before you buy one.
Lawrence Slater

At the moment I am leaning towards getting mine rebuilt.

I have seen one online from heathrow transmissions, they are MGOC recommended for what it's worth!

I am planning to keep the car for a minimum of 5 - 10 years, mileage wise I have no idea. I have covered around 1500 miles so far this year.

I do see your point Lawrence about a type 9 but even these are now starting to cost silly money as more people are switching to them :) It is so tempting to have the 5th gear though.

However I value the originality of the 4 speed, and the slight archaic nature of the whole design!
R Williams

I have a recon 1275 rib box from Heathrow Transmissions. It's good.
Philip Dodd

Why not fit a radio - it will drown the noise from the gearbox!
Graeme Williams

My type 9 meant I could actually listen to my radio

:)
Bill1

Bill1: exactly - isn't the reality that spridget gearboxes really are significantly noisier than modern transmissions? The main benefit is that they drown out all the other clonks and rattles which otherwise might be a source for concern.
Graeme Williams

a Spridget gearbox in good nick (and put together by somebody who knows what they are doing) is no noisier than any other of the period. The complete lack of sound insulation plus sitting right alongside it makes it seem noisy.
David Smith

Another thought about the transmission setup.

Driving the Spridget your head is also not so very far away from the differential noise factory.

Quiet they ain't.
Bill1

good point Bill, I've a type-9 and it's the diff that's noisy, mind I'm told my diff is particularly noisy - the way round it is to keep the hood down as much as possible

I think if you want a quiet Spridget then you need one with a standard two box exhaust and full soundproofing perhaps a 1500

personally I think the mechanical noises are all part of the experience and make the car more of a (road) sports car but admit that they can be annoying on a mundane journey, 70 mph for many miles with engine at 4k+ revs, g/box and diff whines and possibly hood wind noise but these cars aren't about those types of roads or journeys
Nigel Atkins

A good amount of points have been raised

Im not sure there is even such a thing as a quite 4speed spridget transmission...I think a 2nd opinion from someone that has experiance as to the true state of raylons transmission...it could be just noisy and still be good for several more years

Raylon.... one thing to keep in mind....im guessing your late teens - early 20s, your going to be getting married in the next 5 years.....after the "I Do, ...wish to screw up the next 20 years of my life"

The 1st thing the new wife gets rid of to complete or domestication.... is your favorite chair, followed by your shot gun, then your sports car/motor cycle.... these 3 item a gone with in the 1st year...its just a fact of life

I seriously doulbt you will have this car 5'years from now... I would seriously consider the lucas oil treatment ...its cheap and fast and works esp if your not going to drive this car longer then the next 10,000 miles at the most... 2000 miles per year X5 years

Thats why having this checked now by a pro is a great idea and compare that to the time left you have to drive this car

Puting in a recon box is not going to make the car more valuable

Lucas oil treatment... I think is your best option ... at least try it... $15 and 1 hour is not a bad risk for the investment

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Nigel - I think that sums up spridget motoring exactly. That's the pleasure - back to how cars were in our youth (I know that doesn't apply to everyone here but in a lot of cases it's about turning the clock back to the earlier days with the help of rose tinted specs).

When we have covered 75 miles in the sprite we know we've done it! Relaxing it aint but enjoyable, yes!
Graeme Williams

Any one have knowledge of the Toyota 5-speed conversion. 2T corolla to a 1275.I was given one and it's close in size. Does a company make a kit like Rivergate does for the Nissan transmission.
Al Hart

Al,

Dellows here in Australia makes a bellhousing and clutch kit/speedo cable to fit the 2t Corolla split case box to a midget/Sprite or Minor or other A Series RWD cars. They don't make a crossmember though, you have to cut the original crossmember out and make your own replacement. I have one in my car, though I have had a number of issues with it (clutch for the most part, and I am not using the Dellows clutch, so cannot blame Dellows). Lovely box though. Bellhousing is a bit of a rough casting and you will need to do some work to the kit to make everything fit. There was at least one member on this BBS in the UK who had fitted this box using a custom backplate on the engine rather than a custom replacement bellhousing, so that's another option. You will need to cut out the standard gearbox crossmember and make a replacement to mount the box on. You can keep the floor standard though (just cut out the crossmember above leaving the floor in place) if you want (this is what I have done) but you will need to install/remove the engine and box separately rather than as a unit. You will also need to stretch the sides of the tunnel a little (I used a scissor jack sideways), and either extend the hole in the top of the tunnel rearwards a little or modify the gearbox to move the shifter forward. Personally I prefer the shifter back a bit so I no longer hit my hand on the dashboard, but a number of others in the car club over here shortened the gearbox to retain a standard appearance. I removed the top rubber mounted portion of the gearstick and find the resulting length and feel ideal.

Hope that helps?

Cheers,

Andrew.
Andrew F

Rylan

This is a great time to get some more experience of spanner work, as well as finding a way that you can afford to do it. Most of us started this way, old car, no money and few skills and tools and a Haynes Manual. And the street to fix it in!

Have you somewhere off the street to work on the car, preferably a garage or car port out of the rain, flat ground with concrete/paving as you'll be jacking it up and moving an engine hoist, and that you can leave the car here for a few weeks in bits? And somewhere else to store tools locked? (Garden shed)

You should be able to borrow, or hire, an engine hoist (making sure it is a foldable one/fits into a car you can borrow to pick it up) jack and axle stands. the last two make good presents, along with a small set of AF scanners and sockets, screwdrivers, pliers etc. anyone nearby to help - sibling, parent or pal? As well as the kind offer from Alan and the MASC Kent group?

Finally - alternative daily transport while you fix it - bus, train, foot or bike? As well as a kind person with a car to transport a gearbox to and from rebuilders?

Buy the best quality parts, but just the ones you need, and save money on labour. At this stage you may want to take out engine and gearbox with help and loan of tools/equipment, split it, take it for rebuild, and then put it back in with a new clutch. You'll be up for doing your own synchro rebuilds in the future! REmember to provide food and drink for your helpers, and try not to make a mess (which you will, but clear up). And thanks people, including whoever's house it is outside (and from whom you have scrounged old washing up bowls, rags, cat litter plastic trays etc)

As for Prop's advice on how long you are keeping the car - I know what he means! I sold my old Minis, kept the tools and came back to fixing old cars in my 40s. If you can afford somewhere to keep it, hang on to it if you like. And turn it into a racer later! Look around to rent a lock up if you are settled in your area, but have no garage - local authorities and private landlords have hem - look around, ask and put letters under garage doors (how I found my lockup)

Cheers
Mike

PS you are welcome to borrow my engine hoist and a set of axle stands, but I am in SW Scotland.

M Wood

council garages down south are £500 a year - cheaper to sell the car and buy another later.
David Smith

This thread was discussed between 27/08/2013 and 09/09/2013

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.