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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Midget buying advice

I'm writing a magazine article about midgets and need to include buying info. There's plenty in the archives but I have only 200 words available. So what are the most vitally important checks you would make or problems you would try to avoid when buying any Midget?
Andrew Noakes

Rust, Rust, Rust, Rust.(could use all 200 words repeating this) LOL.

Main corrosion areas - Front Spring hanger boxes to rear springs, heel board, cills, door posts especially 'A' posts, front chassis rails - both not kinked and corrosion again.

Most things other than the shell can be sorted much easier.


R.
richard boobier

Andrew, you're welcome to lift anything from 'my usual advice to potential and new owners'

if I could give only two pieces of advice they'd be

a) Look at and test drive as many good examples as you can including some well out of your buying budget to see how good the cars should be and that you may need to increase your budget

b) Buy an owners Handbook before even look for the car and read it thoroughly as it tells you so much you need to know to own, drive, service and maintain your car and it’s very useful to have as a paper copy even if you get electronic copies later, one example supplier - http://www.mgocshop.co.uk/catalog/Online_Catalogue_Handbooks_5.html

full 'my advice' in next post to follow
Nigel At

Hi, welcome,

My advice to potential and new owners -

Keep a complete copy of this information to read and refer to now and later -

Buy an owners Handbook before even looking for the car and read it thoroughly as it tells you so much you need to know to own, drive, service and maintain your car and it’s very useful to have as a paper copy even if you get electronic copies later, one example supplier - http://www.mgocshop.co.uk/catalog/Online_Catalogue_Handbooks_5.html

Look at and test drive as many good examples as you can including some well out of your buying budget to see how good the cars should be and that you may need to increase your budget

It usually works out less expensive to buy a good but higher priced example than a poor lower priced example

When you buy one then;
always have the battery and connections in good condition as this will obviously help with starting the car and running the electrical items but also it will help with problem solving many items whereas a battery and/or connections in poor condition will create problems or not help with other problems

Also have all battery leads and connections, other earth leads and all connections - clean, secure and protected - as this will help with starting of the engine and all electric circuits, same applies to all electrical wiring and connections too

As soon as possible after purchase do a full and proper 36,000 miles service only miss out items that you have 100% proof have already been done very recently, including;
g/box and back axle oils
brake and clutch fluids
coolant
dissy cap, rotor arm and leads (buy good quality ones) - http://www.distributordoctor.com/rotor_arms.html
fan belt

For a coolant change first clean with something like Bars Flush Cooling System Cleaner then drain the whole system - engine block, rad and heater matrix, if you can get any of these out to give them a good shake at the same time as flushing and back flushing then all the better - the sequence is use cleaner as per its instructions then flush, back flush and flush and continue this until water runs clear, refill with the correct coolant mixture but bear in mind in tap water isn’t always the best water to use

Follow the refill instructions from the owners Handbook to avoid get air locks or ‘hotspots’ that could cause overheating of the engine.

If you clean the whole of the coolant system and also renew the seals and foam around the heater matrix you will find the heaters can get very hot

As new rubber cooling hoses tend to be poor quality now this is also a good chance to change them to silicone and rounded-edge clips - http://www.classicsiliconehoses.com/

Be aware that brand new parts can sometimes be faulty, especially electrical bits (see just above) so don’t discount them when problem solving just because they are new, buy good quality parts

Check the age of your tyres if they are 6 years old or more replace ASAP regardless of tread depth, this will improve the braking, steering, ride, handling and possibly noise and safety of the car greatly

Use the car regularly - to get used to it, sort out any wrinkles and prevent the problems that occur with lack of use, and to enjoy it

Every few weeks check your horn, wipers and all switches work and heater valve turns on and off (all no problem if you use the car regularly)

Follow regular checks, servicing and maintenance as per owners Handbook

Drive in all weathers, the Midget hood should be very watertight if fitted correctly and the heater is more than adequate, if working correctly, for the small cabin

Do not do any cosmetic or improvement work for at least 12 months of regular use, unless you need to replace parts or components, as you may need to use the money elsewhere on the car

Also very useful, you can get suppliers catalogues for free to get you started to see where things go but in my personal opinion they’re not as good as a paper copy like - http://www.mgocshop.co.uk/catalog/Online_Catalogue_Parts_Lists_3.html

You can also get an excellent DVD that includes original Parts Catalogues, Parts Fiches, Workshop Manuals and owners Handbooks to have in electronic format - http://www.motoringclassics.co.uk/heritage-range/c380/pg1/sr1

Cheers, enjoy your car
Nigel At

I could not agree more with Richard

Rust is the key!
First see what MK you like.
Then buy the one with the least rust you can afford.
And be realistic about what to expect with your budget.

mechanicals are cheaper to fix than bad (or badly repaired) shells

don't buy a RB car if you want a CB car
don't buy a SWA if you want a RWA car

In both cases you will spend more to make it in to what you want than what the price difference is.

Ask experianced owners if you can drive as many midgets as possible so you know what you like before you buy.
Onno Könemann

Thanks everybody - useful stuff.

What about choosing between the different ages of cars - looks aside?
Andrew Noakes

"choosing between the different ages of cars - looks aside"

besides the looks, here are some of the differences between the ages:

Bugeye/Frogeye - ('58 ~ 2/'61) these command a price premium, though they do have the smallest engine (but super easy to swap the larger engine with no penalty to weight or resale), "sticks and fabric" hood that can be time consuming to erect in a sudden rain storm. The most basic form of the car.

Mk1 - (3/'61 ~ 12/'64), "GAN1". Basically the same car as before, but with less character after adopting the "MG Family" styling. It did get 1098 engine and disc front brakes from 10/'62 ("GAN2"), though, these too can easily be retrofitted to earlier years. Interestingly, this is also the lightest version of them all, so the performance should be slightly better than either a bugeye or a MkII.

MkII - (1/'64 ~ 9/'66), "GAN 3" Wind up windows, curved windscreen with quarter vents, 1/2 elliptical rear springs, outside handles and a lockable cabin (though, why anyone would lock the doors of a convertible is beyond me).

Mk III - (10/'66 ~ 9/'74), "GAN 4" 1275cc engine. "Proper" convertible top/hood that can be put up/down in minutes. US versions got a number of FMVSS required safety and emissions stuff added (some was applied to the UK market cars). Most details, like positive vs. negative earth, or dynamo vs. alternator are easily retrofitted to any year of car, and are easily switched back, so don't seem to have too much of an effect on the resale price either way.

"GAN 5" - "facelift", slim bumpers, split rear bumper.

"RWA" - built from 10/'71 ~ 9/'74. Some feel these are the prettiest version, because the round wheel arch shape compliments the body style.

"GAN 6" - 10/'74 ~ 11/'79. This is the version that causes the most disagreement among fans. It adopted heavily reinforced, black plastic bumpers, like the MGB did, and its weight went up a lot (+140 lbs), but it also came with the Triumph 1500 engine which had several design deficiencies at launch (poor cooling, insufficient top end lubrication, weak thrust bearings and crank shaft). This engine/transmission combination accounts for 45lbs of the weight difference because all of it is cast iron. The durability weaknesses in this engine can be remedied today, but they generated a feeling of "Triumph is trying to kill our baby" in the years following its launch, which, along with the labor disputes of the '70s, and bad design/engineering that eventually killed the industry altogether, and with the "creeping plasticification" of things during that era that killed off the "sports car" until Mazda found out how to re-capture it successfully, all left a sort of a bad aura over these cars, for some people. Kind of like the friend who can't help reminding you of an awful time in your life, like the death of a loved one. It is not their fault, but you struggle to put that time behind you when they are around.

Another interesting difference between the later, rubber bumper cars and the earlier, chrome bumpered ones is related to the ride height. FMVSS required the Midget to be raised about 1" taller than before, in order for the bumpers to line up enough to meet the impact regulations. This raised ride height tended to make the handling less sporty, but combined with the heavier weight of the car, and the different character of the 1500 engine, created a combination that some folks prefer. It is a bit more of a "touring" car, compared with the "cut and dart" handling / sporty nature of the earlier cars. As a result, the differences tend to separate folks into camps based on their own personal driving tastes.


hope this helps,
Norm

":oD
Norm Kerr

Technicaly it is more about the specs than the MK

Engine?
All A-series
-parts supply and wide use
1500
-stock more power but also more weight

Gearbox
-smoothcase no syncro on 1st only good for low power engine's
-ribcase no syncro on 1st good for any NA road power A-series great shifting action
-1500 syncro on all gears heavy gearbox not as nice with the shifting action

Suspention
-front is all the same exept for the ride height which is higher on the 1500 which is a bad thing exept for a trials car.
-rear has the difference of 1/4 or 1/2 eliptic where 1/2 is the later more comfortable and 1/4 is the early setup which is more complicated but locates the rear axle better

Interior
earlyer is better looking
later is more comfortable.

Exterior
same as interior

For me the MKII is the ideal midget as it looks better top up and top down than the later ones.
Wind up windows and "66 seats give the desired comfort
The 1098 has enough power to have fun.

But mine does have a 1380 ;)

Go though the specs and decide what is your prefered MK all have up and down sides.

I'd love to have US style bonet hinges and no doorhandles but that type does not exist
Onno Könemann

BLAH BLAH BLAH Onno :P

Seriously - if someone wants a great, fun, cheap sportscar, then, there isn't much weight difference in the actual engine and transmission between the A-series and the 1500, there is, however, alot of weight difference in the body as the 1500 has to carry the bumpers.

HOWEVER, there is alot of difference in the way that they drive - the A-series is alot more revvy and responsive, but you do pay for that on loss of torque and fuel economy. The 1500 has lots more grunt, and you pay for that in the snobbery that is abundant in the Midget world :)

Having both, I can see the good and bad in both, and what can and can't be done with each engine and body.

The other points though are more than valid, do NOT buy something if you want something else, as you won't ever be able to make it into that, and you'll be unhappy with your purchase.

ALL midgets can benefit from lots of work and blood and sweat and tears, or, you can get in them and enjoy them from day one and not worry about upgrading them!

The most important thing, as already said, is the bodywork - everything else is easy :)
RS MacLennan Baird

Rach
I do point out the fact that it has more power ;)

And say:

"Go though the specs and decide what is your prefered MK all have up and down sides."

It no where states that the A-series midgets are superior.
I just say what my ideal midget is.

So might this be a bit of your 1500 inferiority complex ;P
Onno Könemann

LOL of course you don't - coz you ain't got one :P!

Can't wait 'til next year - and the year after - and, even more so, the year after that, when ALL the parts are fitting and we can really compare them ;)
RS MacLennan Baird

And conclude they are both big smile machines.....
Onno Könemann

This thread was discussed on 31/07/2011

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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