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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - LED Bulbs
Does anyone know what flasher unit I should use in order to fit LED indicator bulbs? |
| Bob T |
| If the bulbs are sold as indicator bulbs, I would imagine they had some sort of in built resistor. |
| Shawn |
| Apparently not Shawn, they just don't flash unless I put at least one old bulb back in the circuit. Can I just fit a resistor then? |
| Bob T |
| I used 12 volt led bulbs in the turn signal indicator...just wired them straight in ...they came in there own holder....got them at radio shack... prop |
| Prop |
| Bob The problem you have is that the flasher works by: - spring strip normally contacts to allow current through (for the bulbs - if they are 21W that's ~3A for each pair) - this 3A is used to heat a coil around the spring strip, which (being bi-metallic - did I mention that?!) heats up and moves away from the contact (the bulbs go out; current no longer for heating) - the spring strip cools, and makes contact again. So if you want to use LEDs (which take ~100mA), then you need to either - load the flasher unit as before (e.g. hidden bulbs), or resistor as you say (but must be around 2-4 Ohms and 20-40W - the value of R will determine the speed of flashing...) - or replace the flasher unit with a solid-state one, that doesn't use current/heat to make-and-break HTH A |
| Anthony |
| I have to ask, WHY? doesn't everybody hate these blasted LED indicators and brakes on things like Beemers that come on so suddenly they blind you? (the actual on/off cycle time gives insufficient time for the iris to adjust). |
| David Smith(davidDOTsmithATstonesDOTcom |
| Thanks Ant & all. Looks like easiest is a visit to a boneyard to get a flasher off a modern then. David - just personal preference, I think they look quite smart. The thing is that its not just BMW using them these days, it's pretty much all the manufacturers. Admitted they're very bright and flash sharply but that's the point of having them. It's especially useful to get noticed in such a tiny vehicle as ours. |
| Bob T |
| I remember reading somewhere that LED bulbs aren't leagal. Might want to check to be sure. |
| Nick |
| Whilst this is not a definative answer, the Maplin website states they are not road-legal. http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=98578&TabID=1&C=SO&U=strat15&doy=search |
| Nick |
| I'm with David and while we are on the subject, does nothing built in the last ten years have a handbrake fitted? |
| Jeremy Cogman |
| Yes but fitted to a lot of new cars nowadays so I'm not sure that they're right... Anyone know the law on this? |
| Bob T |
| I can't believe they'd get a Certificate of Conformity if they weren't built to Construction & Use regs?? |
| David Smith(davidDOTsmithATstonesDOTcom |
| my apologies, I thought you where talking about the indicators inside thhe car on the dash... Next week I hope to learn how to read...lol prop |
| Prop |
| They are not road legal because they will not have gone through EC type approval (I guess). I would like LEDs for the bulbs inside the car in the dash - because the ones on my car are hard to see in the daytime with the sun on the dash etc. |
| Daniel Thirteen-Twelve |
| I'm with David too. There's nothing more irritating than sitting behind someone in the traffic queue at night with their modern high level, high intensity brake lights in your face because they are holding the car on the footbrake. Because it pi**es me off, I always apply the handbrake in consideration of the guy (or Gal) behind me. As for anything LED, the only things I have used are the little LED torch that you strap to your head so that you can look into the bowels of your engine compartment, also a large hand torch reputed by the manufacturer to have candlepower exceeding that of the Longships Lighthouse. Only trouble was - they only lasted for a couple of days before their beady little eyes failed to function. Dave |
| Penwithian |
| >>> Only trouble was - they only lasted for a couple of days before their beady little eyes failed to function. <<< Ha... got a chuckle out of that. On an unrelated note, middle-age is causing my own beady little eyes to sputter a bit. Isn't it fun to lie underneath your car trying to see something tiny just above your forehead - with your bifocals? Before going back to contacts/reading glasses, I used to come in from the garage with a sore neck. Okay, back to topic. -:G:- |
| Gryf Ketcherside |
| I have recently installed super white led bulbs into the dash. They're not quite all they're cracked up to be: firstly fitting them is a sod! but the main issue is that their light output is very dirrectional (and I even bought wide-angle bulbs) so you dont really get an even glow from the dial. I'll attempt to take a pic and see what you all think. |
| Nick |
| I made up some bulbs from info Will posted a year or so ago (such and such a LED and a "X" value resistor) When installed they didnt do a lot at night, mainly, I think 'cos the instruments weren't designed for a decent light scatter I reckon. But they did give me a whiter glowing dial ... just! I used my last one to light up my bike speedo Bright as hell in that role |
| Bill |
| Glad you mentioned that, Gryf. I've spent hours lying on my back underneath, with my head tilted back, forward, specs on, off, folded up on my chest, then sliding off into a pool of oil. |
| Nick |
| ha, specs problem - me too until recently. When I was in for my latest pair of incredibly expensive varifocals I disussed this very problem. They offered to make me up a pair of very short focus glasses for a few quid extra. They work really well under the car, but if I stand up wearing them I tend to fall over ! |
| David Smith(davidDOTsmithATstonesDOTcom |
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| maxlee |
| I have same problem when working on cars these days; I need reading glasses 50% of the time but that's on a continuous basis. They are up and down my forehead like a ...(an elevator, but another expression came to mind...). I think I need to equip BRB with oversize fixings and fasteners to overcome this... Maybe varifocals would be the solution, but then I'd have to admit I really have a problem in the first place... A |
| Anthony |
| Hi all, a couple of interesting points regarding braking,LEDs and safety. Firstly,David complaining about cycle times being too fast, that extra speed applied to an LED brake light illuminating at speed can mean the difference between hitting the guy in front or not, checking the web estimates range from 10 and 200 feet advantage. The fact that we are reading this forum suggests most of us are driving lovely old cars with fairly crap brakes, the probability being that the guy in front will stop before you can. The second point is for Penwithian upset at people who sit with their foot on the brake when stationary. I did a defensive driving course run by Ex police instructors, they actively encouraged that you should do just that as an extra warning to cars approaching from behind, make yourself as visible as possible by putting your foot on the brake, this will also reduce the risk of being shunted into the road at a T-junction if you are rear ended. The guy (or gal)behind may well be on the phone, consideration should begin at home. Mike |
| mike |
| Mike, Italy, I am reading this forum and drive a lovely old car but not at the same time. I would not drive a car with fairly crap brakes and in fact the brakes on my Sprite are outstanding. My worry is that some turkey in a modern will run into the back of me because they can't stop as quick as my Sprite can. On Saturday the MOT tester was impressed with the brake torque readings, he liked the red and blue Goodridge stainless steel fittings in the engine bay as well. Signalling with brakes is ok unless you have vented discs which don't take too kindly to heat soak which they respond to by warping. I've had stupid people reverse into my Sprite twice. The one time the rear of the car was damaged was when I spun it and put into the crash barrier backwards. I'd really like LEDs for the indicator signals inside the car. |
| Daniel Thirteen-Twelve |
| Mike, Italy ; I'd suggest that the people on this forum are better drivers than to drive on the brake lights of the car in front; the better way is to hang back and use 'down the side' sight lines to be looking at least a quarter mile ahead. Then again I see your location, I've driven quite a few times in Italy and it would be quite understandable if you've 'gone native'. As to the defensive driving, defensive often equates to selfish. My IAM observer recommended that one uses the handbrake, watches the mirrors, and dabs the brakes a couple of times when another car approaches from behind. I try to always do that, even once or twice on a circuit when I've spun to a standstill.... |
| David Smith(davidDOTsmithATstonesDOTcom |
| Daniel, from what you say your brakes are not standard, I assume most peoples are and it is just impossible to believe that the standard brakes on a car that is anywhere between 20 and 50 years old can equate to almost any modern car let alone something with a high performance set up. Also passsing an MOT is a minimum, other cars will exceed this standard by a huge amount, which leaves us second best. When I say "fairly crap" its all relative, lets be realistic. David, I agree,most people on this forum probably are more careful drivers, especially when in their tiny little midgets with no airbags,no crash zones,solid steering columns and 30 year old brakes surrounded by Cayennes,Lorries and "geezers" with their fog lights on in the daylight, concentrates the mind as I am sure most people reading this would agree. I think you want to take a contrary position regardless, defensive driving was not about being selfish, if sitting with your brake lights on at a junction could prevent an accident tell me how this is selfish? It could be seen as being more considerate (consider your family in your car if nothing else), and given todays fairly hostile driving environment a midget is going to come off second best in almost any situation. Your are right about Italy, though i will resist going native as long as I can, my mission is to introduce the idea of using indicators when suddenly changing direction, see if it might catch on! Mike |
| mike |
| I think the point is - sitting in stationary traffic (effectively parked) with brake lights on is anti-social. I turn off headlights in these circustances, too. A |
| Anthony |
| No ,the point is this: Scenario, junction, red light, you are the first to stop,traffic passing in front of you, apply your handbrake if you wish, I was told by professional police instructors to apply the footbrake also, Safety, you are more visible to the next car that approaches from behind who may not be aware of you (you dont know...that is the point). Explain how this is anti-social, scratching cars is anti-social,urinating in phone boxes is anti-social, this is common sense. I was also taught the handbrake, out of gear, foot off the brake routine and was iritated by those who did not, I am however open to new ideas and will use those that I think are a benefit, and this is one. You, of course are free to do the same. Mike |
| mike |
| One reason why (well adjusted) Spridget brakes can be very efficient, and on a par with modern cars is that the cars are so light. There is just so much less kinetic energy to convert. I wouldn't hold my foot on the brakes whist stopped for more than a few seconds. I think that the bright lights are dazzling, especially in the wet. I would dab the brakes as other cars were approaching from behind as an extra "wake up, I'm stopped" signal. Guy |
| Guy Weller |
| Mike, my apologies, I have confused you into mixing two separate situations. 1. Stationary and no-one behind - handbrake on, watch mirrors, dab brake lights on/off when you see vehicle approaching 2. Stationary and others behind also stationary - handbrake on, footbrake off, don't even rest your foot on the pedal. As to effectiveness of Midget brakes vs. modern cars, if you can lock the wheels then the greatest retardation is just before they lock - and you certainly can lock the wheels on a dry road in a well-maintained standard Midget. |
| David Smith(davidDOTsmithATstonesDOTcom |
| Al spridgets with well maintained brakes have plenty stopping power (even the drumbrake versions) As Guy said it's all down to the weight of the car. In a modern car it's easyer to stop quickley because ABS etc take the difficult part out (the feel) To get back on topic, hate led lights on cars where they don't belong fine on modern cars it's the bright white headlights that bug me |
| o Könemann |
| I was also referring to David's case 2. Why do I need to shine bright lights at the driver sitting behind? A |
| Anthony |
| I have always given a "defensive-flash" with brake lights to the bloke approaching me, a couple of times (specially if he is coming along lickety split) but would not dream of holding the car on the brakes and dazzling the poor blighter. (My army HGV instructor warned me that it was amazing that no matter how big and dark coloured your truck is there is always some plank who cannot see it in front of him/her. He advised that I should drive this way as a defensive measure) I would hope that a professional minded police driver would have the same principles but I wouldnt hold my breath these days it appears a sad fact that these days many officers believe that they are the "knees of the bees" and the rest of us are like pond life. I say this sadly because I have a few mates that are in the Police Service, or recently retired But since it became "service" rather than "force" the service aspect has nosedived in line with the general bahaviour of the populace. sorry! minor rant over |
| Bill |
| Mike, Uprating brakes is probably one of the most, if not the most frequent modification to the Spridget. The brakes on my Sprite aren't standard. The MOT tester was suprised not because my Sprite has good brakes for a Sprite or passed the brake test but because the brake torque reading is up in the range of big fast saloons and big slow vans. I have figures and a vehicle weight that I calculated which impressed even me. Braking performance doesn't have a lot to do with our cars being 20-30 years old. Rather it is a balance between braking torque, weight of the car and grip. In a popular magazine brake test a few years ago there was an enormous difference between the best and worse performance - ours car would sit in the middle of the chart. I'm realistic and try hard not to AssUMe I'd really like LEDs for the indicator signals inside the car. |
| Daniel Thirteen-Twelve |
| For all you old people like me. I found bi-foucal safety glasses are the ideal thing for working in the garage. Protect your eyes and allow you to see the small things and read instruction sheets with out having to find the GD reading glasses. The come in various strengths the same as the drug store reading glasses. Even available tinted. We have discovered that the LED lights on big trucks do not melt the snow off like the element ones do. Can make for a nasty suprise when you come up on them on a dark snowy night. |
| Kelvin Hawkins |
| Daniel, I think it is reasonable to Assume most midget brakes are standard configuration without trying to make an Ass of anybody, interesting that you felt the need to upgrade though? Mike |
| mike |
Mike, why do you believe the Midget brakes aren't very good? I've got bone-stock brakes, and they are better than most cars on the road. I can lock them up any time I want if I wanted to do that. It's actually the contact patches that stop you, anyway... I drive my BMW on the race track (with upgraded brakes) and when I switch to my Midget, I don't find the brakes wanting at all. I've had numerous times where I came to a sudden stop for some reason or other (pedestrian running off the curb, car pulling out in front of me, etc.), and nearly been rear-ended by the car in back. After putting in LED replacement bulbs in my Midget, it seems to help in that they brake earlier. Just a totally non-scientific data point. Plus, they seem to not have a problem with losing good contact like the normal bulbs do for some reason... |
| Scott |
This thread was discussed between 23/04/2008 and 07/05/2008
MG Midget and Sprite Technical index
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