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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Indicators not working

Have just recently taken my midget out of winter storage and the indicators no longer work. They do not come on at all. The hazard lights work so the bulbs and connections are ok. I've tried cleaning all of the connections but no luck. I've tried bi-passing the flasher and that didnt work either. I think it might be something to do with the earthing of the indicators, but i havent had much experience with working on the electrics so i could do with some help. Thanks

Elliot
E Newman

The Mantra is usually to change the flasher unit, but you say you have by-passed it...depends how you did that as to whether it would lead you to a fault diagnosis.

I would check the fuse first if you haven't already done so.

Another thing that has happened to me is the feed wire to the switch/stalk has broken just as it reaches the stalk, as it is constantly being articulated in indicator use, and can eventually fail.

Why it should give up the ghost just as you re-commission the car is a mystery but worth a check.
You have to remove the 4 screws under the stalk housing behind the steering wheel to separate the 2 halves of the cover to have a look inside.

Apart from that check earths but as the hazards are OK it is probably not that.
JB Anderson

I have already looked at the connections to the stalk and the feed was loose but soldering it in place didn't solve the problem.

I was under the impression that if the flasher unit was faulty the indicators would stay on all of the time.

Also where is the earth for the indicator, im not really sure where it is and it cant hurt to check it.
E Newman

If the connection at the stalk was loose, you'll soon need a new one as soldering doesn't work well in that situation - the wires flex with operation of the stalk and stress concentrates at the soldered joint resulting in failure.

Furthermore, that something was loose could indicate that there are other issues with the switch that may be the problem.

One common source of losing indicators when a hazard switch is fitted lies in the hazard switch itself. The hazard system uses a different flasher unit from the indicators, so in order not to confuse the electrics the power to the indicator switch is routed via the hazard switch so the indicators can be disconnected when the hazards are on.

The hazard switch does this by having two sets of contacts: one to operate the hazards as you would expect, the other for the indicator feed. These latter contacts are closed when the hazard switch is off, allowing current to feed through to the indicators, and open when the hazards are on thus disconnecting them. This part of the hazard switch can malfunction while the hazard part of it still works. It is a common failure.

To check for this, unplug the hazard switch and bridge across the two darker green wires in the plug - these are the power feed to the indicators and test to see if the indicators then work. If so, the only cure is a new hazard switch.
Paul Walbran

If the hazards work there is not a problem with the earths.

As Paul says, the culprit could well be the hazard switch. Try turning it on and off several times, with more emphasis on the 'off'. Then see if the indicators have started working again.
Dave O'Neill 2

If you're anywhere near the Chelmsford/Ongar area and you need assistance let me know.

Bob
R.A Davis


Paul,could you please comment on my hazard lights problem;

My indicators are all working fine, but my hazards will only work when the sidelights are switched on, is this an earthing problem or a confused wiring /hardware problem.

This is on a 73 that originally didn't have hazard lights fitted but I converted it to the later spec that did have hazards. When the conversion was first done everything worked fine... then after 3 or 4 months it changed to the situation which I have now, as I have just described.

Elliot, apologies for sidelining your thread.

Ian
Ian Webb '73 GAN5

Ian certainly sounds like earthing

The ind/side backplate can get furred up and in the bulb sockets (and bulbs furred up) or get rusty

If they're too bad getting the bulb(s) out in one piece can sometimes be arkward

I assume you've added an in-line fuse for the hazards so if it's not earthing problems you could check all connections off that and the fuse for furring (doubtfull)

Less doubtfull is the possibilty of fuse box, fuses and connections being furred up

Then of course it's bullet or other connections but it does sound like an earthing problem
Nigel Atkins

If the indicators work fine, then the earthing to the units must be OK.
If the hazards only work when the sidelights are on, have you taken the supply to the hazard relay from the sidelights supply? It should come from the permanently live feed at the fusebox, and have its own in-line fuse.
Guy

Guy I could well be wrong but I disagree, even if the indicators appear to be working it could still possibly be a poor earth

I must admit I discounted the idea of wiring to sidelights - my mistake there
Nigel Atkins

I have to agree with Guy that if the indicators work there can't be an earth fault.

If there were an earth fault on one indicator bulb, that bulb could earth through part of the sidelight wiring to another lamp with a good earth. Switching on the sidelights would give you 12v on both sides of the bulb with no earth, thereby giving no light!

Sounds like supply problem.
Dave O'Neill 2

Logically, you want hazard flashers that work when the car is broken down - i.e. when the ignition is off. But you only want / need / have the normal indicators working when the car is in use - i.e. when the ignition is on. So the supply routes are different to the two flasher units, although of course they then feed to the same lamps.

This could explain why as indicators may work, whilst as hazards they don't. Or vice-versa.

What is odd in Ian's case is that the hazards do work when the side lights are switched on. I could understand if the feed to the Hazard flasher was taken off the lighting circuit instead of from the permanent live at the fuse box. But is sounds like the phenomenon developed of its own accord, after originally working as intended! Very strange!
Guy

What we need to know is where the supply was taken from.

If from the fusebox, was it taken from one of the two sidelamp fuses?
Dave O'Neill 2

Ian

Sorry, not ignoring you, was away for Easter.
I'd agree with Guy, the earthing should be OK if the indicators are working. Also, if hazards go only when sidelights come on that's exactly opposite to what you'd have if there was an earth problem - extra lights on the same earth connection will provoke rather than cure the situation due to the additional current.

So I'd go for "confused wirng/hardware" and my first check would be what Guy described about where the feed is. What puzzles me is that it worked OK for 3 or 4 months before gremlins set in. That indicates there may be something more complex at work, but if so it is likely to be in the power feed what ever it is.

Perhaps a first test to try would be disconnect the current feed at the switch and rig a temporary one going direct to the fuse box, the fuse with the brown & purple wires connected to it. Brown side for non-fused, puple side for fused - I'd go for fused myself but either will prove the point.
Paul Walbran

Thanks all for your comments,
Its wired as per the works system, its Diagram 12 in my BL Manual. The feed is taken via no6 fuse as per std (which is picked up at the door pillar bundle IIRC......but its three years since I did it.
I am considering replacing the swith and the additional hazard flasher unit before I do anything else.
Its not been working properly for at least two years and I want to get it sorted as I feel its unfinished business....... and before the next MOT.
Ian
Ian Webb '73 GAN5

This thread was discussed between 19/04/2011 and 25/04/2011

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