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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Heater control

Really stupid question. Which do your turn the tap on the heater control to turn the heater on?
Steve Norfolk

anticlockwise, like anything else that you undo. It may be stiff if it hasn't been turned for a while. Or it may already be open, but furred up inside. (blocked)
Guy

Towards the heater = On
Away from the heater = Off
Providing the heater is standard and correctly installed.
A copy of the Drivers Handbook answers all of these questions, and many more ;)
BH Harvey

Sounds like Guy is describing a 1275 Spridget and BH is describing a 1500 midget
Which do you have?
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Do 1500s have a lever then? I am sure mine didn't, but memory about such frivolities as heater taps does fade after a while!
Guy

Yes they have a valve that is similar to the one found on Minis. It is a simple lever operated by a cable from inside the cockpit. And is a pita
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

Steve,
there are no stupid questions

as said to get the hot (coolant/antifreze) water out of the engine into the heater matrix (radiator) you'll need to undo a bath like tap at the back of the engine near the heater box ot if it's a 1500 turn the level - despite what Bob has put it'll probably not have a cable on the level

once the heat in in the box it goes into the cabin on to the footwells or windscreen depending on whether the footwell flaps are open

you can booster the hot airflow when stationary or travelling slow by turning the knob on the dash

there are reprints of the fantastic book that used to come with the car when the car was new explaining this and all other car operations and details on servicing, different book for different models, only £8, link here - http://www.mgocshop.co.uk/catalog/Online_Catalogue_Handbooks_5.html
Nigel Atkins

sorry,

by level I mean lever

ot means or

thumbs up to BH who I missed had already suggested the Driver's Handbooks (note these are not workshop manuals)
Nigel Atkins

Thanks for the advice it's 1275 cheers
Steve Norfolk

Bob

The 1500 does have a simple lever, but no cable. You still need to open the bonnet to operate it.

Item no 75 here...

http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=1432
Dave O'Neill2

Steve,
you want Ref: 0057 then - http://www.mgocshop.co.uk/catalog/Online_Catalogue_Handbooks_5.html

Dave/Bob,
for the 1500 you can get an aftermarket kit that has a cable for the lever, see item 78 here - http://www.mgocspares.co.uk/acatalog/mid_heatingventiln.html

of course if Bob had access to a 1500 Driver's Handbook he'd have known it was a lever only :)

I notice Lawrence and a few others have 'missed' this thread, wonder why :)
Nigel Atkins

Nigel - you said no stupid questions.... how about stupid answers!!!
Dave
Dave Price

all factually correct Dave :)

which was the bit you didn't like?
Nigel Atkins

If you don't like opening the bonnet to turn on/off the heater tap, then move it inside, with a simple bit of plumbing. I have, and it works a treat.

An alternative that I have been considering myself, is to fit a low voltage motorised valve in the heater pipe, either flow or return. This could be easily controlled by a switch on the dashboard, or other suitably convenient location.

Here is one example supplier, but there are a myriad. :)

Lawrence Slater

Sorry, forgot the link. :)

http://baytree.co.uk/products/valve.html
Lawrence Slater

these heater questions are mounting up L :)

TVRs had motorised valves (possibly from a Citroën?) for heater temperature and the diverter flap for windscreen/footwells you had to make sure you used or tested the buttons fairly regularly to stop them seizing up as the valves where in awkward places to get at
Nigel Atkins

Nigel - just a comment in general - not what you have written. To be honest for a moment you are one of a good handful of people that make sense and without people like yourself this board and our cars would suffer as a result.
Dave
Dave Price

Blimey, sorry and cheers Dave

if I could write, type and proof read better I'd make a lot more sense and I either go from writing little and seeming rude and abrupt to wittering on too much

I admit I'm a little sensitive on questions of heater controls because some on here don’t believe they should really come up, the previous poor chap to ask about this I thought might be a wind up and put so because of his follow up question and my suggestion that it might be a wind up
Nigel Atkins

Don't worry Nigel.
If you read the original question it was really just about which way to turn the tap. Which I answered in the first reply. - based on the convention for any water valve, and not by reference to the Handbook! ;-)

But as is so often the case with these discussions, the real value is in the way the subsequent discourse wanders around related and not so related issues.

If you struggle with lengthy messages to get them typed, proof read and corrected before the topic strays too far with intervening messages, then try typing it as a Word document and then simply cut and paste it when you are ready to have your say.
Guy

Guy, you hadn't established whether it was a tap or lever so BH provided the first correct reply :)

I agree just getting the direct answer to the direct question may not always correctly cover the subject or actual problem plus the wandering can bring in more details or other information – plus the discussions can be very useful and fun

the sad thing is that I do sometimes type in MS Word and paste in but MS Word can't cope with my spelling and also lets me use the wrong words (like 'that' instead of 'than') and doesn't notice when I forget to type the word 'not'

sometimes I have to alter a sentence or even paragraph because I either can't think of the correct word or get anywhere close to spelling it because of my idea of pronunciation (MS word spelt that for me)

I really did suspect a previous question elsewhere was someone from here on a wind-up but it was genuine and certainly not the first I’d seen like it but to direct others to it just to prove me point might be seen by some as belittling the person that posted the question

most of us on occasion find it difficult to say we don’t understand or don’t know or have a question about something we think we perhaps should know

my question at the moment, and previously, and no doubt in the future, is why must some of the new parts we buy from reputable suppliers be such rubbish and fail so quickly - arrrggh

ETA: by the time I've typed my post, had it corrected by MS Word and posted here usually someone has put something that now alters what I've put and makes my post out of sequence (not this time obviously)
Nigel Atkins

Afraid not Nigel. Guy was right first ;)

Guy said in the first answer, "anticlockwise, like anything else that you undo."

Steve hadn't said which engine it was.

BH didn't establish if it was a 1275 and described the 1500.

Steve Norfolk, Posted 22 February 2012 at 18:42:43
"Thanks for the advice it's 1275 cheers"

Page 14, Fig1 in the Handbook.

How ironic. The first time I find a use for the handbook, it's to prove Nigel of all people wrong. LOL ;)




Lawrence Slater

I wasn't trying to claim any sort of kudos for getting the correct answer first. The point I was making, was that the way these discussions then develop, wander around a bit and cover different aspects of the topic is what is enlightening.

Steve was asking about his car which subsequently was confirmed as a 1275. BH identified a different answer that was correct for a 1500, but not for Steve's car. And the subsequent discussions usefully reveal that there are different variants and also covered a number of possible modifications that could be useful.

And that is what makes the BBS a useful and sociable place! Of course you don't get that variety of information from reading a Handbook!
Guy

I did put a smilie to suggest a tongue in cheek comment about first correct reply

Every post on this thread has offered help

No Guy you don't get a variety of answers from the Driver's Handbook just the correct one (for the vehicle when it was new not allowing for future developments up to 50 years later) :)

L,
to help you with your logic path for other problems :) -

I didn’t say Guy was wrong about the direction of turning the tap

Guy, didn't establish it was a 1275 so turning the lever (which he'd forgotten about on a 1500) anti-clockwise (as you look at the lever from a normal position of standing at the front or side of the engine) would turn the heater valve off

Bob was on the right course by differentiating the A-series and 1500 arrangements and asking which Steve had but then wandered off by thinking 1500s had a cable when this is an aftermarket fitment

but

all that matters not a jot - as someone had the good sense to refer to the Driver’s Handbook for the correct answer

and

it was you !

you of all people referencing the Driver’s Handbook – I was having a bad week until this moment but now I’m on a high, you even referenced the page number

I just had to check mine as it’s a later Handbook it’s on page 16 in mine

L and I comparing pages numbers of the Driver’s Handbook, who’d ‘ave thunk dat !!

:)
Nigel Atkins

Nigel,
Steve asked, "Which do your turn the tap on the heater control to turn the heater on?"

Guy, understanding that you do not turn a lever, you turn a tap, answered as he did, which was correctly. ;)


Précisément Nigel. Me of all people.
As I said, how ironic, that I should use the revered drivers manual, that I dismiss so often, to refute the one person who lives by it day and night. :)

Lawrence Slater

"Guy, understanding that you do not turn a lever, you turn a tap, answered as he did, which was correctly. ;)"

You do not turn a tap in either case,the definition of a tap = "a device consisting of a spout and valve attached to a pipe or bowl to control the flow of fluid". ;)

Really Guy was correct initially in advising that all VALVES open anti-clockwise. With a 1500 the action is accomplished via a lever, as opposed to a 1275 which uses a (more primitive) dial.

BH Harvey

dear DH buddy,

I don't know about in engineering or Cumbria or Kent but in Northamptonshire we turn levers as well as taps

funny thing words and expressions

we turn the telly on but the wife off




we also push or pull levers and turn levers on or turn levers off

you can push red buttons to start a machine and green to stop

stupid mobiles where you push the red button to turn it off and press the same red button to turn it on

if only we had a book to refer to :)

ETA: typed whilst BH was posting

the correct technical terminology is less important to those that don't know the technically conventions but a clear communication is always useful and important

I liked toward heater explanation
Nigel Atkins

ETA:

my new DH buddy would understand a tap as a light punch :)

also OP doesn't ask which way

and I read it different anyway (but I would)
Nigel Atkins

The clue was actually in the question, "which (way) do you turn the tap". An acceptable description of the device on the rear corner of an A series engine. When did anyone last refer to turning on bath valves! So, my answer was which way to turn a "tap" (valve) I didn't consider (or rather remember, since I once owned one) that the 1500 used a lever controlled valve. That wasn't the question! I suspect that had Steve owned a 1500, and been asking the same question he would have asked "which way do you move the lever..."

All too pedantic for me!
Guy

last time I put I was being a 'pedent' on here my new DH buddy picked me up on my misspelling of the word :)

anyway BH put >>A copy of the Drivers Handbook answers all of these questions, and many more ;)<<

and you can't get more correct than that
Nigel Atkins

What's a DH buddy?
Guy

Driver's Handbook?
Dave O'Neill2

Oh, Maybe. Not sure where the "Driver's" bit comes from. I have yet to discover this mythical Drivers Handbook. Mine is just an "Austin Sprite MKIV Handbook", it doesn't mention any Driver. I don't remember it having an entry on how to spell pedant eitehr. Its obviously wider ranging than I had realised. Must be in the same section that lists the 36,000 mile service.
Guy

I didn't know you'd been to Belgium and done horing too Nigel. :)

Hah hah. The english language is a rich and wonderful thing.:)

Does a tap cease to be, when it connects to something else? Such as in this case, a heater core.

Are these taps or valves?
http://www.growell.co.uk/13mm-19mm-in-line-taps.html
http://tinyurl.com/7kwve5l
http://www.diyderby.co.uk/inline-tap-2058-p.asp

You don't turn a valve, you operate it. In this case by turning the tap. It's a tap valve. Some valves are gate valves that rise and fall, by turning a knob/tap handle, or moving a lever.

You use a lever like the handle of a wrench, and rotate in around a shaft. If you turned the lever, you would have to remove it first to be able to do that.

Today many people understand the meaning of the word gay, not to mean happy. Thanks LG rip. Most people understand that you would turn on flow of hot water to the heater, by the tap.

What a gay day. lol








Lawrence Slater

Guy,
as you will no doubt fondly remember I used to refer to owners/Driver's Handbooks but decideced to simplify

the 1500 is titled Driver's Handbook and so is the the MGA, some of the MGB and lots of other classics have Driver's Handbooks

as it happens mine is MG MIDGET MARK III (GAN 5) HANDBOOK

you and I have already discussed the 36K-mile service

as for 'pedent' - I put I was a 'pedent' and my new DH buddy quite rightly put that a pedant would have checked the spelling, funny (but not on retelling perhaps

L,
I think you mean a "leavver" on a wrench and most people might understand that you would turn on the flow of hot water FROM the heater by using the tap

Nigel Atkins

So Nigel, have you done horing? :)

I don't know what you mean, but I mean lever. A leaver, is someone who leaves.

The heater we are talking about in this case, is in fact more correctly, a radiator of heat, not a producer or generator of heat. In which case you turn ON the flow of hot water TO it, -- by the tap.

If it were a source or generator of instant hot water, then you would turn on the flow of "hot" water, from the heater, as you say.

On the other hand, if the heater were a storage water heater, it would require a flow of water to the heater, and a tap to allow the flow of hot water from the heater.:)

Can we go to bed now lol.



Lawrence Slater

This thread was discussed between 21/02/2012 and 25/02/2012

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.