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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Grey dull day, and a bit cold too.

Consequentially, I'm sitting in front of the laptop amusing myself.

Had a good day so far though. I Received a couple more of my ebay bargain buys today. All bought for my recently aquired Maroon? or is it Damask red? '73 midget.

And so the spending begins. However, I'm doing this on a very tightly controlled budget. Only buy the essentials, and only buy them cheap.

I vow to me, that I will always be able to out this car, for at least as much as I've spent on it, including the purchase price. Amen. :)
Lawrence Slater

you watch that the Wife doesn't catch you "amusing yourself" in front of the laptop, ;)
P Ottewell

Wrong kind of ammusement, lol, and wrong section too. I thought I was posting on the general section. Whoops.

So here's a techie type question concerning front wings.

See picture below. The rest of the wing is completely rust free, but the bit you can see, is far 'worse' than it looks here. You can't buy the repair section for this. A new wing is daft money these days, and even crap wings fetch silly money sometimes.

So, apart from getting a section off a scrap wing, if this bit is still good on it, has anybody got their pictures of reconsructing this section?

I seem to remember someone did, but I can't find it in the archives.


Lawrence Slater

2 degrees in the garage so also not playing. If you look on Amicale Spridget website at www.spridget.free.fr you will see John Clark & me restoring his frogeye. We bent & bashed the equivelent position repair sections and then lead loaded. You'll have to scroll down a bit but it is captioned in both French & English.
Alan
Alan Anstead

Bright sunshine here all day, but the ice didn't melt where the sun didn't reach. Did manage to make enough room to get the Midget in the garage next to the Elan bodyshell. The BGT is still outdoors :-(
Mike Howlett

I was going for a run today, but the day got away from me.
P Ottewell

Thanks Alan, I'll have a look at that.

You're the 2nd person today to mention lead loading to me. And for the 2nd time, I'm a bit unsure what it means --- precisely...

Please explain for me, and for the archives. :)
Lawrence Slater

PS Alan. I looked on amicale spridget, but can't find the restoration you mention, even in english :). Which link should I follow ?

Cheers
Lawrence Slater

Lawrence, lead loading was the method widely used in the car industry before resin-based plastic fillers became available. You "tin" the surface of the steel, then raise the temperature with a blow torch to the point that lead, applied from a stick of lead, just softens and melts. You then sort of smear it around, usually using hardwood paddles, to fill joints, depressions or seams in the steel panels. Heat it too much and the lead liquefies and all runs off onto the floor! So it takes a bit of practice to do it right!

I made a bit of repair section for that lower front wing on my car by cutting pieces of steel shaped a bit like orange peel segments, and then welding back together to roughly create the curved shape. Then I beat it with a hammer for a while and disguised it all with body filler (not lead loading!)
Guy W

Actually it is not lead but a lead tin mix. A pure metal such as lead wouldn't be of much use as it would turn from solid to liquid at one temperature. By using a non eutectic lead tin blend the liquidus (fully liquid) and solidus (fully solid) temperatures are different and the material goes through a pasty state between those temperatures where it can be worked.

http://www.1956f100.com/General/lead_solder_filling.htm

Mentions 30% tin 70% lead.
David Billington

The solder I have used is the basic plumbers large stick type solder we used to use to 'wipe' lead pipe joints.

The easiest way to 'tin' the clean steel surface is to use solder paint - its a mix of ground solder and a cleaning/flux material. Paint it over the area to be tinned and gently heat with a gas torch until it runs as liquid solder and coats the steel.

It easier if you can elevate the panel such that its not vertical to stop the applied solder/flux running off if you over heat it. Solder can be moved about a bit like butter - BUT care with the torch if needed to ensure if does not overheat and run/ burn the flux.

Its then is flattened off when cold with a coarse rasp to profile.

I've done it a few times but it takes lots practise to be good at it.

R.
richard boobier

As Richard, I used a stick of plumber's lead solder. But I did find it quite hard which I just put down to lack of skill. Maybe I would have been more successful had I realised what David describes and got hold of a stick of the right mix!
Guy W

Guy,

Plumbers solder is 30/70 (tin/lead) which has a very large plastic range so should be fine.

R.
richard boobier

MGBs had some lead loading as standard up to the rubber bumper cars. The seams on the rear deck and below the boot lid were filled with lead, as was the seam that goes across the rear roof pillar on the GT. My '69 GT is like this and the seams are invisible. If you look at later cars the rear deck and lower seams are visible, and the pillar seam on the GT is covered with a plastic badge.

I've tried to use solder for filling and it is definitely an art. There is a marvellous video somewhere on the web of a guy leading the front wing of an E-type Jag. How he gets the solder to stay stuck on a vertical surface is magical to watch.
Mike Howlett

Lawrence
go to www.spridget.free.fr and scroll to the bottom and click on Suite (continue) and then scroll down again and the pictures of the rebuild of the Frogeye will eventually appear at various stages.
Alan
Alan Anstead

Mike,

You reminded me of my nightmare !

I was restoring my old B and doing some welding to the rear skirt.

Had a full hand held face shield and thought I heard something strange - so luckily I moved and held the shield in place.

To my horror lead was dripping onto the face shield where the adjacent welding had melted some lead loading.

To this day it sends shivers down my spine - could easily have hit my face !

R.
richard boobier

Lawrence,
your new car looks the same boring old man's red as my Midget, more suited to a BGT than a Midget - Damask red

Carmine is similar but lighter - http://www.teglerizer.com/mgcolors/
Nigel Atkins



Lawerance...

Why not make a fiberglass mold from another good car for that section, im sure someone would allow you to make fiberglass resin mold of that part ...

just make sure you use a good release agent on there car first....before applying resin and glass....cheap simple and will never rust... You can even add in stiffener rods after the fact to make it more rigid

Its a thought worth looking to youtube for further insight


Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Sunny and mid 70s here... INSANE, normally we would have 2 feet of snow on the ground by now and mid 20s,

Thank god for global warming...keep killing the ozone i say...lol



Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

1500 wings tend to be cheaper. You should be able to cut the bottom off one of those and make it fit.

I've got one, but its the offside.
Dave O'Neill2

Richard, I did the same thing. Merrily welding the new rear valence to the new boot floor when I noticed this bright metal dripping on to the garage floor. Whoops! Fortunately not enough melted to notice.
Mike Howlett

Amazing what you can get from a grey dull day. Thanks for all those answers.

Breakfast now, comment later.

Sun's out today. Cold as hell, but bright as heaven. :) -- Well not quite, but I like a bit of drama on a Sunday. lol.
Lawrence Slater

What grey, dull day, its been cold in the garage but not too cold to finish this car! (no such thing as bad weather, just bad kit, quote Johnny Squire 1964).

Tallyhoooo........

Well, maybe its a bit cold, the battery has gone flat so its on charge!
Dave Squire - Notts

Lawrence. See above re the pics on the Amicale Spridget website.
Alan
Alan Anstead

Yup, thanks Alan, I'm going to take a peek soon, but have to take a leek first. lol.
Lawrence Slater

x2 Dave O'Neill

You should be able to find a reasonable wing at a reasonable price if you keep an eye out on ebaY. Just make sure that it really is solid in the same place as that is usually the first place they start to rust through.

The other thing I would suggest is that you check carefully at the bottom of the wing where it meets the sill. Stick your hand down from the inside under the bonnet. I would be surprised if that is still good looking at the amount of corrosion at the front.
N McGurk

Thanks Alan, I found the pics. That's the kind of thing I have in mind, if I can't find a lower section from an old wing at a reasonable price (but actually I think I have now, just waiting for a pic of it).

Prop, my Sprite has decent wings, and taking a mould from there, or at least using that to model a bit of sheet metal on, is what I have in mind, in the absense of a cut off lower section.

David (great link that), and all, thanks, I now understand leading, and remember seeing it done way back. By the time I master that though, I'll be dead lol. Anyway, for this section, that isn't really seen too easily, I'll just use conventional filler to make it smooth.

As I said, the rest of the wing is pretty well perfect, even at the sill end. I've already checked that.

There's another fairly decent wing on Ebay for "reasonable money", but add in postage or petrol for collection and it's still too expensive for me to butcher just for the lower front section, and the rest of the wing isn't as good as the one I have already. I could buy a complete new wing of course, but I really prefer to fix the original one, and inted to keep the costs(excluding my own time)to an absolute minimum.



Lawrence Slater

Mind you, if a new wing came up at a bargain price, I'd have it.
Lawrence Slater

This thread was discussed between 01/12/2012 and 02/12/2012

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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