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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Greasing front swivel axle pins

Not sure why I have only just noticed this, but the midget 1275 manual says "to ensure full penetration of the lubricant, this operation is best done with the car partly jacked up". I have always done this with the car fully jacked up. Is there a difference between partly and fully? If partly is more efficient how much is partly?

It is certainly a lot easier with the car jacked and the front wheels off.

Silly question after all these years. I must be getting more picky about reading manuals.
M Parris

I remember reading that years ago and have since decided it is just stating the bleeding obvious. :)

It's nigh impossible, unless you have a pit to get in there and pump in the grease, and see at the same time if has squirted out of the ends, unless you jack it up at least partly, and easier if fully jacked up.

Also, I find you need to rotate the axles to get the grease to pump in fully, and that's easier with the wheel off the ground. And then wiping of the surplus expelled grease is easier if you have it jacked up.

I suppose you could decide that in jacking it up, you reduce the pressure on the trunion and allow the grease to pump through? But in jacking it up you put more pressure on the base of king pin and might make it more difficult to pump grease out of this end. Maybe that's why it say "partly" and not fully jacked up.

But it also says "best done", not ONLY done.

Who knows, just another mystery text with no real significance, other than to pad out the pages.

They should have put it in the drivers hand book. :)
Lawrence Slater

that is in the (Driver's) Handbook, it might be the 'manual' M Parris means, I must admit I'm with I'm not sure what it means and do as Lawrence, I'm now not so agressive with turning the wheels from full lock one way to the other since I read you could damage the steering rack if over zealous, I'm not going through a steering rack episode again

I grease the front every three months and just before an MoT

at the risk of stating the obvious - keep checking grease is getting out of the gun and keep checking grease is getting past nipples
Nigel Atkins

Yes, it's the Handbook that came with the car.

Mike
M Parris

I grease mine once a month, 5 nipples each side. As l do it so often, and am lazy, l don't bother jacking it up. I just turn the wheels to full lock, rolling the car a little as l do so, and reach in to do the accessible ones each side. Then roll and turn to full opposite lock and do the remaing ones.
I liberly overgrease untill there are fat yellow slugs and then smear these over any exposed metalwork visible.

The reason for such frequent greasing is not because it runs out or dries up, but is to carry any road grit or other contamination that may have got in, out of the bearing before it does any damage.
Guy

A '60s time served mechanic friend advocates the follow method:

1 jack car up and remove wheels
2 turn full lock and then pump grease ontp each nipple until clean grease exits
3 turn other full lock and repeat
4 position block of wood under the kingpin
5 partially lower the car to apply slight pressure to the suspension and then pump grease
6 turn other full lock and repeat

HTH
Doug Plumb

Thanks Doug, I guess I should have just picked up the phone.
M Parris

1) any grease is better than no grease
2) the less you have to do, the more likely you are to grease it.
3) If the car is not in the air with the wheels off, it cannot fall on you
3A) if you don't take the wheels off, you don't leave them loose.
4) if the car is jacked up and you grease it, the grease will wind up on the usually loaded side of things, where it is most needed. When the car is lowered, it will be forced around to the unloaded side, where it acts as a reserve and sealant for crap that tries to get in.
5) Guy is exactly right. Water and road salt are the most evil of villains. I once had an XK120 with all the frontend boots completely gone, not available, and not affordable in time or money. I greased it every time I drove it in rain, and it was my only car, in Pittsburgh Pa year round. Never had any wear in any of the numerous ball joints.

FRM
FR Millmore

"3) If the car is not in the air with the wheels off, it cannot fall on you
3A) if you don't take the wheels off, you don't leave them loose."

You seem to have a rather poor view of peoples intelligence, and abilities to avoid the above FR.
Lawrence Slater

Lawrence-
Reality.
50 years of service work, seeing the stupid stuff people actually do, and fixing the results, justifies the warning. The consequences can be dire, the warning is a simple check off.

FRM
FR Millmore

A garage I used a few times told me of a guy that came in with an old car for MOT and they failed it on kingpin play so he went away and came back about 1.5 hours later for a retest. They said the excess body filler he had injected into the grease points and had squeezed out elsewhere hadn't been removed and the fact the he couldn't have done the proper job in the time, they told him to leave and not come back. The tester did admit that if he had come back the next day and had tidied up the job they would have passed it as they wouldn't have known better. I guess horses for courses as the idea is similar to Moglice for rebuilding machine tools.
David Billington

David-
Sounds terrible, are "Moglice" discerning in their choice of nesting and feeding areas? Do they eat other cars and bits?

(I am familiar with the machine tool recon stuff, but had not heard this name.)

In the depression in the 1930s, my father had an encounter with his motorcycle and a car, where the bike had pretty well slid along the wings and running board. Since nobody had any money, and the guy said he was selling the car, my father offered to fix it, with the warning to be sure to sell it before winter ended. Did a beautiful job on the shiny black car, so the guy kept it - the roof tar melted in the spring!

FRM
FR Millmore

Remove battery leads before doing anything on the car eh FR?

Nanny state, I call that. :)
Lawrence Slater

If we are talking bodged repairs - and we weren't to start with so maybe this should be a new thread -

When I stripped my car for some welding repairs I found that the inner rear wheel arches, where the chassis "snake" extension runs over the axle tunnel, were completely filled with a mixture of concrete and sawdust. I can only think that someone had used up all their filler on the rest of the bodywork!

And the other bodge which I have seen in action, was to push pieces of an old pair of tights in through the filler plug of a noisy back axle. It really quietened it down too! I don't know how long it lasted though as it was "moved on" a few months later. Apparently it can be done to a gearbox too, although I would imagine it might alter the syncromesh characteristics a bit!
Guy

Getting back to kingpins and such, I always jack under the spring to completely unload the trunnion and kingpin bushes, then pump in the grease.

-:G:-
Gryf Ketcherside

I also jack under the wishbone, as it gets the wheel of the ground with less lift.

Do you think a decent grease gun (I use a Wanner) would put enough oomph behind the grease, to force it out against the loading of the bearings anyway?

Better than paper mache Gut :).
Lawrence Slater

am I doing it wrong then, I put axle stands under the the wishbone pans posistioned to the inner side of the pans and leave the wheels on

I have to turn the wheels to get at the nipples and usually do a few turns to full lock either way as I go along

I keep pumping until I see clean grease coming out but have thin pencil shaving lines of grease come out of some bits and slugs of grease from others
Nigel Atkins

However you (safely) choose to raise the car, the critical thing to me is that you keep pumping grease in until any/ all contaminated grease has been displaced out of the bearing. Even if it hasn't been in there so very long since the last greasing episode. Other than the TRE grease nipple which is well sealed within it's rubber boot (except for Nigel's which I expect are perished again!), this usually means perhaps an extra 1/2 dozen strokes after the first appearance of any surplus grease.
Guy

Guy,
I was thinking more of if the axle stands in that position are allowing the grease to get to where it's needed most

and what about the thin pencil shaving type of grease escaping is that correct and exiting as and where it should

you may not remember that I went to a lot of trouble to replace the boots that came with the new TRE with Rhino Rubber boots

interesting point about the TREs with grease nipples - as grease is harmful to rubber(?) now much grease do you put into the TREs (and where does the old grease go to) do you keep pumping until you see it coming out of the ends

and when I fitted the TREs to get them tight squashed the boots down to discs so would the grease force passed the boot spring clips

thinking about it I can't remember greasing the TRE nipples last time so if I did I couldn't have put much in
Nigel Atkins

Nigel,
TRE's that's where I said OTHER THAN TREs. Meaning that they are the only ones of the 5 per side that I don't just keep overgreasing. I don't think they are subject to dirt ingress a s much as the other bearings so I they just get a singe stroke of the gun.

I was teasing about your TRE boots. I knew you had changed them, but knowing your luck the replacements could well be past their sell by date already!
Guy

Guy,
I wasn't questioning your method or your post just asking general questions - the thin pencil shaving grease for instance and positioning of stands to get best results

I did wonder when I opened the boxes to find the TREs had grease nipples (my model car didn't originally get TREs with grease nipples) about greasing them

original TREs with grease nipples got 3 or 4 strokes of the grease gun according to the good book and I assume as my grease gun is small I need to multiply this up

as far as I can see the TRE boots are still there and yes I would be very dissapointed if they didn't last for many years but not totally surprised
Nigel Atkins

This thread was discussed between 22/05/2012 and 23/05/2012

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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