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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - getting the car back on the road

So I am planning on getting to spend the month of August back at home with my midgets and want to get my 78 running which comes with a long list of things I need to do to it.

I want to convert it to tube shocks and I know the lever arms are toast. I would not want to use them as an upper arm in a suspension kit that just bolts onto the lower a-arm so I am left with only a couple choices: Frontline or Speedwell

Speedwell have two kits listed on their page one of which I do not want to use because of the worn out lever arm shocks but they do mention one for $750.
http://speedwellengineering.com/frontsusp.html

Anyone have any experience with this kit?

The other option is the Frontline kit which I have heard good reviews about and costs a little over $1000 depending on who you buy it from.
http://www.spridgetmania.com/web/Item/1600%2FFLD/InvDetail.cfm

http://mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=67808

Does anyone have any advice with these kits?


The car also needs some body work. I was bumped into in 2003 before I put the car in storage and although it has not rusted it needs body work. Its a modified 78 but still has the square arch rear fenders. I want to instal/modify the fenders into a flared type on the front and the rear. Does anyone have any advice doing this? I am not a body work guy so I'll end up taking it to a body shop for the work and then painting the car myself.

I want to flare it like this: http://www.ignomini.com/automobiles/midget/ondyno1.jpg

Is there any special way to have this done?

-Stefan
Stefan

Hey Stefan,

Long time buddy, I thought maybe you got bored and went to afgan. for a coupe of years for a little extra excitment.

The speedwell kit for $750... looks exactly like the frontline kit, I and a friend sent off to the Uk for the frontline kit several months ago when the exchange rate was really good in our favor, but we got anally raped by furry happy rabbits on steroids when it came to the shipping cost, Still with the exchange rate so off center we made out like bandits, unfortantly thats not the case anymore....So I think your ahead of the current game with the speedwell knock off version of the frontline kit.

With the current exchange rate, custom fees, Bank currency fees, shipping, ect.. your probably looking much closer to $1300-$1500 for the frontline kit at the current monent... just a guess.

Prop
Prop

I've been realy busy in the desert but I have not been to Afghan yet this year. Rigt now I am out in the Mojave between LA and Las Vegas doing some work. They even gave me cool signs for my rental car so I would not get shot at! Personaly if I saw these placards I would not have much restraint in fire but hey thats just me.

I'll give speedwell a call in the morning and see what they have to say.

I'm still trying to find someone to do the flares on both of the Midgets. The black 78 needs to be repainted anyway and the 74 is getting totaly torn apart as I do the turbo build.

Which shocks did you use on your kit?

-Stefan


Stefan

On flaring the fenders.

Check the arcives around april - may, someone posted a really good magizine artical on how to make flared fenders...it was really good and appeared to be easy to do.

You might even post a new thread asking if anyone remembers that artical...I remember everyone had to ask for a email version of it as it was to small to post as a pic on the BBS site...I got it somewhere, Ill see If I can find it, but that will take awhile as everything on the ol computer is like my junk drawer. ( okay...my junk closet )

Prop
Prop

NMC check out this video I made which in Spain with some random girl I met there..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRV_evVbtyo
Stefan

while in Spain.... spent to much time today in the desert!
Stefan

Stefan,
The Frontline kit comes with AVO adjustable tube shocks.
David "still procrastinating" Lieb
David Lieb

"UN"...LOL,

Now thats just funny, Im sure some dog sh*t for brains rag head is going to say "Oh wait dont shoot, He's with the UN"...LOL, You might try the letters "TV" that might get you a little further...I shouldnt make fun, But Im still laughing, sorry about that.

I havnt installed the kit yet, but it came with the dial knob 10 click adjustable AVO shocks, with rubber sleaves, and red neoprene bushings

I couldnt tell in the speedwell photo if it had the dial knob, but it looks exactly like the frontline.

Prop
Prop

its so the US forces don't shoot at me!



Stefan

Traffic, don't get road rage in this commute!


Stefan

"need TLC, needs paint"


Stefan

What the heck was that ride?

yeah thats alot better question then what we are all thinking about the screaming express...LOl

prop
Prop

That last one could also be titled "running when parked" Lol
Phil
Phil

At least there is still one good tire....Now that makes good scence on the UN cover, I hadnt thought of that.


So what are you doing these days, did you re-up, or have you gone for the big dollars and gone genral contractor like black rock, I remember you moved out to melborne last winter after getting a new job, so your back in the west coast agian, or still in fla. providing a bad influence to Phil.

Prop
Prop

I actualy did both!

I got out of active duty and got a contractor job traveling the world and earning enough to buy a house in Florida, at the same time I joined the Florida Army National Guard and got to keep my rank and other than deployments with in the US for things like hurricaine relief they can not send me on federal deployments ie: Irafghanystan.

I'm working at an aerospace company in Florida, I have been there a year last May but they keep me busy on the road. I even found out there is an MG car club in Melbourne but have yet to be in town to go to a meeting and now my goal is to get the black 78 running well and then maybe attend some meets or events. I hate the idea of a rolling restoration but really all the car needs is some suspension work, some interior work, a ding on the rear left fender fixed and while I am at it get the fenders flared to fit the wheels and repaint the whole thing.

The 74 is the one I am turbo charging and I have the motor assembeled and last weekend finaly found the correct front right fender for it. The 74 must have at some point in time got in a fight with something and the front right fender was replaced with one from a previous MK, MK2 or 3? anyway it did not fit properly and while working on it about a 3/8" thick slab of bondo fell off big enough to grill salmon on so I decided to get a new fender? Anyone want a front right fender from a wide chrome bumper midget?
Stefan

On the body mods the only real way is to buy or fabricate steel flares and have them braized on. Cutting out the rear arch will weaken the structure so putting back steel is important. However on the rear you'll need to modify the inner arch as well joining at the clinch. So there are 6 steel flares in total. Fiberglass or aluminium flares which are screwed and bondoed on can look the same, but won't have any strength and will have a different coefficient of expansion to steel - so over time a witness line will develop where the new material has been added.
Unless your car is illegal I'd reconsider restoring the body to as is. Putting flares on as described can become quite a lengthy and expensive job. Just ask the bodyshop to quote the number of hours to complete and you'll see what I mean.
f pollock

This guy used Ford escort mexico flares to fit on his midget.
Not a bad job if you ask me, although the car is a bit high on the suspension.


Arie de Best

f pollock,

Thanks for the advise. As you said I am looking at paying a body shop to have the fenders cut and flared by fabricating and installing steel components not just glueing on some fibreglass. I do not know how much it is going to cost but I feel its better to do it the right way rather than the wrong way.

I am not an expert at the fenders on the rear but mine is square arch being a 78 (the rubber bumpers have been removed) why would I need extra parts on the rear? The main problem with the minilites is the rear wheels rubbing a little on the rear arches and I would like to flare them just a bit an make them match the front. In my opinion flared fenders look better than a stock RWA and a million times better than a square arch rear midget.

Anything I need to let the body shop know before they start cutting and fabricating?

Here is a photo of my black 78 Midget I am modifying.

-Stefan


Stefan

Stepan,

Contractor and stateside researve...vary ambitious, where do you find the time for spanish screaming girls...LOL

On the rear wheel arch...think of it in terms of structral intagerity in rearend collision, and the effect it will have.

With the sq. arch ...it has that ridged channel at the top of the arch (aka square) this will prevent the arch from folding up at the peak of the wheel arch, if you cut out that support and round out the fender and dont re-inforce the rounded arch in a way to make it rigid at the top peak of the new rounded arch...its going to look like a slinky got it on hot and heavy with an accordian and at best it will fold the entire rear end downward, and push the top right behind the door pillers in an upward direction...making the car about 2 feet shorter and more compact.

If your not rubbing by much you might consider a panhard rod...I love mine. the pan hard locates the rear axle to the body and holds it there. preventing the tires from moving around and hitting the arches

Prop
Prop

Prop has said it really,the square wheelarch was designed to add stiffness in a rear impact (along with the rubber bumpers) and if you remove it the gas tank will end up in the passenger compartment, and you will get very warm. The inner and outer wings are integral to that structure and their stiffness is reliant on the sectional form, metal thickness and integrity of all the spot welds. So the new inners need to be made to match the existing surface and end up spot welded like the originals to the outer on a clinch flange. Before you go near the bodyshop you have to decide how much you are happy to spend and what style of flare you want. At the least find a photo of a Sprite that you like the look of and use that as a point of referance. But better to actually model the flares in on one side in Plaster of Paris so templates can be made. Its all material on and something rough and dirty could be done in a day. The bodyshop can quote against this and you'll both have an idea of what you want to end up with. Go for a small concave flare in preferance to a convex blown one. Nothing looks worse than rally flares on a car that doesn't need them. In truth your car could get away with the wheelarch flange being wired and tapped to get the clearance that's needed,so the flares are basically cosmetic. But once you get a detailed quote in writing,including any photos and templates then you can proceed.
f pollock

Stefan, did you paint the window frame black too and did you put the old type round rearlights on?

I have been thinking of putting on the old round rearlights on my debumpered 1500.

Arie de Best

Arie,

Yes the wind screen frame has been painted the same color as the rest of the car. The tail light covers are the older solid red ones and the tail light frames were painted the same color as the body at one point in time and then i painted them silver in 2003 after the black started chipping and now I have black and silver chipping so I am going to find an original chrome pair.
Stefan

Stephan, Good to hear from you!
Melbourne has good club with a show "Brit Bash on Wickham" Nov. 7th. Always about 5 Midgets there. Hope to meet you.
Phil
Phil

It is possible to flair the square arches, a bit of cutting and fettling but it can be done! Tyres are 185/60/13 and no rubbing even without a panhard rod.

Cheers Carl


C Bintcliffe

Carl,

Thats what I have been kicking around, I like It, Soooo ... How did you do it?

Btw... How is the team doing, It seems I read that they have been winning some races this year

Prop
Prop

who makes a good panhard rod I can get here in the states with out flying to the EU?
Stefan

Winners Circle makes a good one for the money.
Trevor Jessie

thanks Trevor,

I was looking on spridgetmania and they have one but they say "not for rubber bumpered cars" well my car does not have rubber bumpers because I removed them but its still a 78... I wonder what else I will have to do to modify it back to fit the panhard rod....

I bought the 74 because its more fun to work on something prior to rubber bumpers but I love this 78 and I installed a 1275 in it!
Stefan

Call Winners Circle.
Trevor Jessie

Hey stafan,

I have the one from winners circle...It works great, I cant imagine a midget without it, It was around $200 several years ago...Make sure you ask him about the ride height...Mine was made for a lowered suspension, So I had to re-make the leaf spring clamp inorder for the rod to run parrelle, an the x and z axis of the axle...(did that make any scence...LOL)

(yeah now we need a CAD program on the BBS...LOL)

Prop...Im so spoiled by this site...Prop
Prop

from what I understand there is not much difference between the rubber bumpers and the chrome in the rear end other than spring height so it would make sense to have a different panhard rod for the different ride heights or just get the correct springs from a <75 car ie my 74.975' Midget built in Oct of 74 about 30 cars before production ended of the 1275... on the other hand if I have a 78 which I do could I not just install springs from a 74 and then add the lowering blocks I already have?
Stefan

Stefan, just the 1974(1275) springs will be enough to lower the car on the rear.

Get panhardrods on both midgets.
If the wheelarch thing is about wheelrubbing and not for estethics you could also pus out the rearwheelarch with a jack or something pneumatic.
I done so on my 75 midget with 175-65-14 wheels.

On the picture you see its slightly out and the paint wasnt damaged by doing so.
I run a RTL(Frontline) on mine and still had wheelrub.
The axle dint move nor did the wheels/rims but the tyre itself also moves in corners and that rubbed against the inner arch.
Now it doesnt anymore.


Arie de Best

This thread was discussed between 19/07/2009 and 23/07/2009

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.