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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Fibreglass panels - whats your opinion

Just been looking at honeybourne mouldings at their midget repacement panel , including the one piece front end .
I was wondering if anyone on here has had fibreglass panels fitted and what they are like ?

Anyone had a complete fibreglass front end fitted ?

Particulary interested in fitting a one piece front to my 1500 midget , mainly because my front nose cone could do with replacing , i want to get rid of the rubber bumpers and to shed some weight from the car .

Also i like the idea of them never rotting !
D Stratton

They don't rot in the same way metal does but this doesn't mean they are free from getting damaged - fibreglass glazes and if bumped breaks and is alot less lasting than steel so it depends on what you plan on doing with your car.
rachmacb

I have Honeybourne Mouldings front wings and possibly one of their bonnets and am very happy with them.

Sorry, no one-piece front though.
Bill 1

I drive the midget every day come rain or shine so thats why im interested in panels that wont rot . I know people use fibreglass parts on race midgets but wondered what theyre like on everyday road going midgets ?
D Stratton

You will find that your everyday car will not be everyday as you will worry about any possible damage! Not to mention, unless your inner wings/sills etc are in very good condition then they will need work before you can drive it.

If it's an everyday car then the drop in lightness from steel to fibreglass isn't worth all the disadvantages and work - if you take the bumpers off properly anyway!

You can get good secondhand parts to replace what's not right on yours, so do that instead and enjoy your car in all weathers.

However, it being your car, then make the decision on your circumstances - not what anyone else says!

I found the above though and I enjoy driving it and other stuff - but I sure ain't taking it anywhere someone might hit my precious front and not in the ice either!!!!! Previously, I drove it anywhere and everywhere ...!!!! (this also happened to a friend of mine so I'm not the only one to find it - although in both cases it's a rare front so that may have something to do with it:)!)
rachmacb

Got some wings that are not fitted yet. They're very very light. Had a friend with a fibreyglass flip front and he said the extra lights were really wobbly. The wings I have don;t look too hard to fit, will probably take a bit of fettling but no worse than the steel ones...
Rob Armstrong

thanks for your replies , gives me something to ponder on !
D Stratton

I've had a one piece for 7 years (car only running for 4.5 but thats a different story).

Never ever worried about damaging it. Why would you? You would worry the same about damaging your car whether it's steel or f/g. If you worry, then don't drive it!

Mine is very light. Maybe 10kg? Big weight saving. I've just got a second one to replace my first one after a wall jumped out at me.

Regards quality of fit, it's not as good as steel but I never expected this of a very light one piece. The wheel arches can sometimes go a bit flat at the top if you get my meaning. To combat this I've put some stiffeners (alloy round bar) on the inside from the lip across to where the wing would meet the bonnet. The fit to the bulkhead isn't great but if you want it to be then some work shaping with f/g & filler would get a better shape.

To locate the rear end to the sills, I have fitted some s/s spring retainers, with the other end riveted to the sills. I tried the rubber ones but they didn't last 2 minutes. I have 2 each side, front and back to keep it well located. Some use the Deuz fasteners, but I like to keep it well pulled to the body to eliminate vibration/rubbing.

I don't see why the condition of your sills & inner wings would have any effect on using a one piece. If they're in bad condition then they need fixing regardless.

About painting, I found that paint would sink a bit after a few months. So I painted it, left it a few months, then flatted off and painted again. I have seen f/g fronts on race cars that had absolutely immaculate finishes, so it is possible.

I love the access to the engine bay, bloody ace in fact. I love the weight saving. And tbh I like the look. I'm sure I would like steel too, but the extra weight & detrimental effect on acceleration would always be nagging me!

You will definitely have to put new springs on, especially going from 1500. I'm pretty sure that the 1500 front wings had different wheelarch profiles to minimise the visual impact of raising the suspension. As the f/g front end is based on an early thick bumpered spridget (well mine is from Moss), you'll lose that so the car will look even higher than it is. You could lower using your old ones, but I would estimate you'd need a 2" drop, so thats 1" of lowering under the spring pan which is a lot. Anyway, new stiffer springs would make the car handle a lot better.

The only damage I had with my old one was after one of the engine mounts broke meaning the engine would rock badly, the dashpot of my single SU was hitting the bonnet. Got some glazing about the size of a 50p piece. Never worried about it, never repaired the glazing. Could notice it unless up close and I was more bothered about driving the thing!

It's true that f/g can suffer from water ingress, but look after it, paint any cut edges properly, and it will simply not be an issue.

I do think that they give a different look to the car, even tho they have the same shape. Defo looks a bit sportier in my eyes, but then again I am biased.

I would think that you could do the conversion in a weekend easy. Cut the valance off, sort the mountings out, transfer all the lights etc. Oh, you would probably need early sidelights rather than your big 1500 ones. And paint it. Do the springs.

So, have fun whatever you do!

Matt
Tarquin

Im agreeing with rach on this one....even if she does belive in using a shot gun on looting, vandalizing pest....hahaha

Ive worked with various midget fiberglass panals, and one thing they all have in common, is the panals are all vary flimsy and little ragidity, if this is going to be a daily driver car, id definatly reinforce the panals wih heavy wire and extra glass and gel....ive never delt with a complete front clip, but from what ive seen and dealt with id use chicken wire with resin to reinforce it

Midget F. glass is so easy to tear and break

Prop
Prop

Tarquin I'm sure it's not a problem if it's just a plain old front - but the one on mine isn't - and the one on my friends is an original Ashley - so, therefore, neither are easily replaced, it cheap!!!
rachmacb

We have a one piece front. The fit wasn't that flash and needed quite a bit of work to make it fit. Son Andrew, who has a PhD in composite engineering, was of the view that it had been removed from the mould too soon and sagged a bit as a result. But it looks respectable now. Even after at least 4 encounters with very solid objects during various hillclimbs. Contrary to what you might expect, we have found that the fibreglass dealt with these inpacts rather well and needed a lot less work than steel to sort it!
Paul Walbran

LOL Paul - you're probably right - but, since one particular part of my front is going to cost more than most secondhand fronts, I'm probably being way too precious about it!!!!

Basically, anyone who TOUCHES my car in the wrong way had better avoid my house when the vet comes ... ;)
rachmacb

Rach, I wish you'd been driving my B last track day then ...
Paul Walbran

I'm with Tarquin on this one - what's the point of fitting GRP parts to save weight and gain speed if you're too scared to drive the car afterwards as its apperance might be affected! If you want a perfect car, stick to concours and leave GRP along.

Ultimately any GRP front will acquire cracks and crazing over time if the car used properly, but generally it doesn't show unless you are looking up close, they tend to be in quite small areas, and once you have the first bit of damage, like anything, you tend to be less precious about it.

The original 60s W&P "Sebring GT" front with unique special order air scoop fitted at W&P's works on Sebrina has taken quite a battering over the years and has evidence of all sorts of historic damage and repairs on the inside from long before my time - and in the last 6 years I've added a fair few cracks for example by having to drive the whole of Wigton Motor Club's "Roof of England Challenge" in the high Penines with a seized shocker, but that doesn't detract from the front's overall good appearance.

But if you look closely at it you can start to spot the belmishes - although isn't that the same as on all spridgets which have a used life outside of CON?

Eventually I'll get it re-gel coated and repainted when it reaches a certain point of tattiness, but I reckon there's a good few years left in it yet.

So maybe the answer is that like any car part, GRP will require maintenance. Get a fibreglass front if you want weight saving, easy engine access, you like the style of front you've chosen, and want a different type of maintenance on different timescales.

What are the views of IOW owners on here? Jordan had to deal with a crash not all that long ago, and his car now looks immaculate...


Mothy - '65 GAN3 and '65 HAN8

LOL THAT bad Paul??????? Is that the same one you ended up rolling over in?

For the record, I would like to stress here that both Midgets for which I have experience of fibreglass fronts WERE used as daily drivers - infact, mine was not only used as a daily driver, but, was my work car for the NHS where I worked in the community, and my area was 50 mile radius - not to mention having to go to the main hospital some 50 miles+ from home - so I don't think anyone can accuse me of not driving it ....!!!! I think my "quiet months" had 1000 miles - how many other midgets can claim that?!?!?!?! Daily drivers don't always have time to be off the road for repairs, and, unless you're an expert in fibreglass - then steel ones can usually be picked up cheap and changed in an hour or so!
rachmacb

I went GRP for lightness and they've stood the test of time and still look really good, not much fettling to fit as I remeber - 1 vote here for Honeybourne.

Cheapo single skin bonnet not so good - not Honeybourne.

Les
l snowdon

My road midget ran a one piece grp front for at least 16 years from when I intially built it through two subsequent owners and was still okay when we bought the car back.

I've since nicked that front and it's now on the new race midget and reverted the road car back to steel wings and bonnet.

The advantage with the full piece front in that you get tremendous access into the engine bay is also it's weakness when you need to lift the bonnet road side to do something innocuous in the engine bay so it made sense to use steel panels (as I'd acquired them over the years) when we required another one piece front for said race midget.

Saying that, I'd have been quite happy with separate grp wings and grp bonnet if I'd had those to hand.

Andrew
Andrew McGee

Rach

Yep, same car, but not the same driver - one of the sons was driving it. I told him he was just a beginner in bending it, I did much "better"!
Paul Walbran

I have a one piece rear end fitted to my 1500 (rubber bumpers removed) after somebody parked their Skoda on my former steel rear valance. I got it from Honeybourne mouldings and it did require a bit of fiddling to get it to sit right and then some more shaving and alteration to get gap lines neat etc. I was amazed by how rigid it was after installation though as when i originally pulled it out of the box it felt pretty flimsy. I think there are more anchor points to fix it to on the rear 1 piece than the front 1 piece. I’ve also got a g/f bonnet to go on and this is similarly flimsy – im a bit concerned that once it’s painted it will crack/craze pretty quickly whenever i remove it from the car?
Jamie Watt

http://www.spritespot.com/gallery/toomanyspridgets/1686_3

GRP is easier to play with if you want to make your aheelarch holes higher or cut holes in for cooling/being cool.

http://www.spritespot.com/gallery/toomanyspridgets/rt_lyd6l

Less rust if the car is going to live for 10 years outside. PS That 1500-shape bonnet is still here. Anyone want it for £100?

http://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/foggythomas/?action=view¤t=lenham1a.jpg

You can get a nice finish if you try and the car seems to resist little knocks in the carpark reasonably well. Still no rust after nearly a decade on this one and I rescued both the rear Lenham bodywork and the bonnet from the bottom of the river near Monmouth. Years under the water and it cleaned up alright.

I'm a big fan of GRP!
rob thomas

If it includes delivery :)
rachmacb

I like FB panels when they are new as they are easy to modify but I would rather repair a damaged steel panel as FB is a bugger to repair properly. I've had 2 bonnets on my car and I suspect they came from the same place as both sagged above the engine area, one came with the car and one was ordered as a replacement and that was sagged as delivered. I always suspected they had been removed from the mould too early as Paul suggests. The FB rear end of my frogeye sagged in the centre also. Appropriate use of a fan heater to soften and reshape the panels helped and the front end was reinforced along the back edge and above the engine, it was also mounted on a lightweight steel frame which attached to bonded in pick-ups below the indicators and above the wheels in strong areas of the panel due to its curvature in those areas. The steel frame then used the front bumper iron inserts in the chassis for a pivot. Basically if I ever buy another FB panel I'll try and arrange a visit to the maker to see the quality before buying as so far I've been unimpressed with the ones I had.
David Billington

David

The sags you describe is exactly what we found. In our case it retained so much memory that no amount of heating and shoving would persuale it to stay where it should long term. In the end we cut the bonnet part out and spliced a new piece into it (fortunately we just happened to have a good bonnet mould here!).

For that reason we are about to make our own mould of a front end, so we can control the result. We think it will be cheaper and quicker in the long run.
Paul Walbran

Oops. Duff link. Should have been...

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/foggythomas/lenham1a.jpg
rob thomas

Rach made a good point. Shipping a full bonnet in GRP is not easy because there seems to be some issue with shippers where they won't shift large GRP panels. Not sure why.

I grafted an MGC bulge onto it to clear the cam pulleys on my twin-cam conversion when I was in my earlyy 20's.

Anyway, Rach, you did notice that it is a 1500 shape?
:O)
rob thomas

Rob Please could you email me at Rachel-macb at hotmail dot co.uk.
rachmacb

This thread was discussed between 11/08/2011 and 17/08/2011

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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