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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Engine removal without a hoist

I have a 1500 midget time, some skill, but no means of lifting an engine, my spring project is fitting a new gearbox, so has anyone here ever removed an engine by removing the front radiator & panel work so pulling the engine out forwards? Any comments or advice much appreciated.
s lowiss

It has definitely been done on various 1275 Spridgets at race meetings when no engine hoist was available, using a length of rope and a strong length of timber.

The more people the better. Two is minimum, four preferable. Without gearbox is much easier.

I haven't tried it or seen it done on a 1500.
Dave O'Neill 2

Make sure you get this on video....Cause we all want to see this.


if you got a big hardwood tree (oak, elm, ect) in the front yard you can get a hoist and some rope and tie it to a tree branch and wrench it out that way....just make sure you wear a straw hat and some dirty over alls and when you refer to a friend you say yeall as in "Yeall cum ba kna, ya err"

Prop
Prop

Cue banjo music:)
CJCharvet

Mr Lowiss,
In the interest of saftey and your back I would recomend that you hire a crane for the weekend, the 1500 & box is a heavy lump.

Howie.
Howard Wright

I have a crane which is bulletproof which cost 150 quid. I recommend buying one, I have found all sorts of uses for it!
Rich Amos (1 Sprite 1 Midget!)

Funny thing about engine cranes... people are more apt to lend them out than other tools. Why? They hope you will keep it for a few months and get it out of their way. They are great tools for the job, but seem to always be sitting in the way otherwise.

...Just my theory.
Trevor Jessie

I have just reinforced the brace of the garage's door and fixed the hoist to a chain. And it works well.




ld derancourt

I made out like a bandit and found one for $125 on craigslist, split it with my dad, and now it's stored in his aircraft hangar. The folding type doesn't take up too much room.
CJCharvet

I have a folding type, the small amount of room it does take up is well worth it.
David Billington

Toss in my vote for buying one! I got a fold-away one at half price last year and was able to put the engine/tranny combo back in solo. No need to organise a gang to help and you'll save a bucket load in beer costs!

Buy it...use it...sell it on eBay.

Chris
Chris Elkerton

I dis- AGREE with everyone else above!

You are correct in your orginal thinking, You can easily do this withOUT a crane, (I have complete faith in you) Just use the the "Rip it and Grip it method", Remember dont use your knees all the lifting power comes from your lower back, so really Put everything you got when lifting away and up using your lower back and groin area to maximise your full strength and that engine will fall right out no problem.

Just PLEASE make sure you video this event and put on youtube...As an instructionalble Aide


Prop
Prop

With two people and a length of suitable scaffold pole lifting the 1500 engine on its own is quite quick and easy. I have done that several times in the past. It helps to strip off the ancillaries first to reduce weight - especially the alternator, but also to avoid anything snagging as you lift. Remove the radiator to help with clearance but no need to remove the front panel, you just lift a bit higher!

What is much harder is getting it back in because it is difficult to align it with the gearbox at the same time as still also taking the weight.

Guy
Guy Weller

A Lowiss how about this -- only up the road in wakefield

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Engine-Hoist_W0QQitemZ250409856392QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Lifting_Moving_Equipment?hash=item250409856392&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A4%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

ps its nothing to do with me and i don't know them --just saw it and thought of you.
Mick - trying to sort the wiring

Mick that hoist will lift the whole car!

We did a similar thing and bought a second hand one for around £50 I think last year, the only thing to watch out for is the width of the legs and the height of them. The one we got the width only just goes between the wheels but we have to jack the car up to get it under the wishbones.
Ed Brown

Dis this twice. Engine out is a 2 men job with a solid bar and a piece of rope. Its best to remove the bonnet and the radiator is a must. THe front valance can be left at its place. Engine in is better with 3 men. 1 to guide 2 to spoil their back. Did this both times engine only so without the gearbox attached.

Bas 1098 engine
Bas Timmermans

In a mates case with his Caterham and a 1700 Xflow it is one man and his wife for both removal and refitment on at least one occasion. He now borrows my engine crane if required as it doesn't complain if you go for a tea break with the engine hanging.
David Billington

Thanks so far Gents, as usual on this BBS some good advice & some laughs too. So far I guess, A series midgets are do-able using 2-3 people and a scaffold pole, I know I did a minor 1000 this way. But I,m still too scared to try a 1500 iron lump. Guy, if you definitely did a 1500 I may give it a try - pls convince me further. In the mean time I will try to hire, beg, borrow or steal a 'small' (NOT buy a monster sized hoist cheers Mick!) Any further comments much appreciated.
Steve Lowiss
s lowiss

Lifting by hand is foolish imho, one slip and people & parts get hurt. Skin grows back but parts cost money. Check these out, well worth the cost & if you own a spridget, it will get plenty of use. Also, check with local car clubs, you would be suprised how many cranes are sitting around gathering dust. A six pack or two of beer will usually get you a crane & plenty of help.

;>)

http://www.grizzly.com/products/ENGINE-CRANE-FOLDING/G8713

http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=crane
SK Kowznofski

I am a DIY kinda guy, but I also work solo for the most part. I bought a Harbor Freight crane and I love it so much that I bought the compressed-air-powered cylinder for it ;-) A friend of mine and I were manhandling a 1500 with transmission attached in the snow this winter. I do not consider myself a weakling and my friend is a bit of an ox. We coulda snagged it out of an engine comapartment if necessary, but we are both smarter than that. In this case we opted for sliding that sucker out of the back yard on a plank. You might get away with removing it using a floor jack under the pan, etc, but you WILL want the crane or equivalent for slipping it back into place. As Prop was trying to say in his own inimitable way, new backs are expensive and never work as well as OEM.
David "older and wiser than I usta be... I think" Lieb
David Lieb

SL,
Yes, I can confirm it was when I had my 1500. I did it twice - both times with just 2 people. It is quick because you don't want to take more time than you have to with the weight! You undo everything, put a jack under the sump and lift the engine over the front chassis rail and pull it clear of the gearbox input shaft. From there it is a straight lift with a scaffold pole over your shoulders and plenty of space to move it and put it down again. You need to plan and coordinate well with your partner so that you lift and move together.
At the time I had a hoist ( an old Haltrack) but nothing to attach it to to lift from. I then built a garage with a RSJ lifting beam built in and much more recently bought a Winchester chain hoist (£50).

I wouldn't (couldn't - too many birthdays) attempt to lift by hand again.

Guy
Guy Weller


We did my 1275 a bit like Lauraunt - just fixed a £20 e-bay Haltrack hoist to a ceiling beam in the garage. I've used it a couple of times since for lifting other items too - we flipped the shell on to it's back to weld the floor and the hoist came in useful after we'd rebuilt the suspension - it was now too heavy to lift comfortably, and the hoist meant we could turn it over under control and without doing in our backs.

I feel a lot safer with the engine (or shell!) hung from something rather than relying on balancing it...
MarkH1

Guy,
In my youth a friend and I took my Sprite engine out using the lift and walk method. I wouldn't attempt it now- too old ! For subsequent removals I got a cheap pulley with a thin "rope" that you needed to wear gardening gloves as the rope crushed the hands to bits. The pulley was attached to the thin concrete joist that supported the corrugated roof on the garage (gulp!!). I had a couple of those threaded scaffolding lengths that I put each side to "support" the concrete joist, and wound them up tight. I actually raised the roof -literally - of the two garages either side. I'm still here to tell the tale, but thinking back...........oooerr.
Geoff Mears (1970 Midget)

just to add my sixpen'th [and therby give away my age!] Yes.. we all did superhuman things in our youth, but just looking at the engine nowadays makes my back ache! I have just put back the engine/gearbox combo [1275] and believe I me would never contemplate that manoevre without a crane. Down a bit back a bit up a bit up a bit more for about 40 minutes would be impossible ... even worse if fitting an engine!
David Cox

ISTR Thornley's book about early days of the MG company having a tale in there about Cecil Cousins (IIRC) removing and reinstalling an engine from one of the cars solo with a rope across his shoulders and his feet planted on the shock towers. They were giants in those days! (Or at least he was...)
David "I know my limitations" Lieb
David Lieb

It sounds to me that what Steve really needs is a kind member of this board who lives not too far from him and who also owns an engine crane to pop along one morning or afternoon and help him to lift this engine out! Maybe with referance to the 'Top Beer inside my stomach' thread on the general board some suitable payment/donation could be arranged and we could all sleep easily knowing that Steve will still be able to get in and out of a Midget for many years to come.

Just a thought!! Carl
C Bintcliffe

David,
They may have been giants, but the engines were smaller and lighter then. At least some of them were! I used to remove and refit the engines in my Austin 7's single handed like that. All alloy crankcase and not much else to add to the weight!

I could also change a wheel on the car without aid of a jack - slacken the 3 wheel nuts, hold the corner of the car up with one hand whilst a quick twist and pull removed the wheel from the slotted studs and then replace with the fresh wheel which you had of course put within reach! Old cars weren't all built with railway lines for chassis rails!

Guy
My car's worth £2000, but I am NOT scrapping it!
Guy Weller

If anyone is considering buying a hoist check the legs width. Most hoists are too wide for a Spridget and leave you no option then to halfsideways approach the engine bay. Thats not ideal. Better are adjustable legs! (we are still talking about tools Arie!)

Bas
Bas Timmermans

Gents, thanks for all your feedback. I have decided to try and locate a hoist. best regards all. Steve Lowiss
s lowiss

What Bas says! Narrow track on the legs and just as important, low profile wheels which will go under the wishbones/arb arms etc.

I have been looking for a sutable one on E-bay on and off for ages but ended up with a tubular tripod as it was only £20 rather than £100 plus. Everso tiny to store too.

Two things strike me about E-bay lifts. Often "used once a few years ago" and/or they are rusted due to being kept outside. Blarry things are always in the way.
Clive Berry

Mr Lowiss

where in south yorkshire are you?

i have a folding engine hoist and am in sheffield, you're welcome to borrow it but if you're miles away from me then you would probably be able to buy one cheaper than the cost of petrol......

regards, john :)
j b biggs


forgot to say, i have a spare 1500 lump in the garage and i would hate to try fitting/removing as it nearly broke my back when i collected it from the seller (didn't take the hoist- didn't realise just how heavy it would be and how weak i'd become over the years!!!!!)


john.....
j b biggs


> I used to remove and refit the engines in my Austin 7's single handed like that.

Me too, back in the 1960s, could do the change during one's lunch hour.

Whereabouts in Cumbria are you Guy?
I have a brother near Longtown who I occasionally visit.

Roly
Roly Alcock

Well I lifted the engine out of mine with no big problems (1275), took the front panel out lifted it manually and out she came, problem was I dislocated my shoulder putting it back in!!!, was only 27 at the time, now 31 and car is still not finished.

Jim
Jim Redmond RWA Midget

When I take my engine (1275) ito the machine shop, Im going to lift it in the back of my truck all by myself, and Im 44, It should be super easy!

But then agian the engine is spread out into about 9 differant box's 8 ^ P


Prop
Prop

Message to John B Biggs, I am in Grenoside N Sheffield, would you please email me at steve dot lowiss at o2 dot co dot uk . I would love to get in touch. Best Regards.

Steve Lowiss
s lowiss

This thread was discussed between 20/04/2009 and 28/04/2009

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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