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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Engine and carb identification

I have just bought a 72 built but 74 registered RWA 1275.
I am fairly familiar with midgets but after a great deal of looking I can't positively identify the carbs and engine.
The carbs have two conflicting tags and the engine number is missing.
The identification cues in Vizards book and the tuning manual don't seem to add up.
What are the definitive ways of telling, its a thick wall block and am pretty sure its a 12v but what version?
I am trying to work out how original the engine is to the car before deciding what level of originality to aim for.........
R Barr

As far as block identification goes, don't put too much faith in Terry Horler's 'Original Sprite & Midget', as that is one area where there are errors.
Dave O'Neill 2

The mental telepathy part of the BBS Appears to be non working at the moment

In the mean time, Can you please post some photos ?

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

I think the 12V engine re-introduced the mechanical pump option but was blanked off for Midgets.

Rob
Rob aka MG Moneypit

Give me a chance, I had to pull some more bits off the engine to get a better look at it and take pics.

The carbs are marked up as AUD327F and AUD557R which is a bit strange to me, are there any material differences between the two?
Engine pics on both sides now I have stripped more of the ancillaries to get it out the car.

Any thoughts? The engine id is missing.


R Barr

the other side...........
R Barr

The other side, this time.........


R Barr

http://issuu.com/theshadybower/docs/su_reference_catalogue_16_2012/95 gives AUD327F listed as for a 68 - 71 Midget. AUD557R doesnt seemed to be listed.

HTH

Doug Plumb

At first glance, it looks like a 12CE.
Dave O'Neill 2

The oil priming plug, which I found when taking off the ma carbs tonight would tend to say it was a pre 12v block.
However did these have the 1275 plate on the nearside front, the 12CC block I have doesn't have this.
R Barr

From memory, the capacity plate was fitted to early engines, not 12V.

Does your 12CC have the hole for the rivet?
Dave O'Neill 2

My 12CC engine does have the 1275 plate.
Bob Beaumont

The carb numbers are odd.
I have looked all through the SU Reference Catalogue and AUD 327F is correct for the front carb on a '68 / '71 car.

But AUD 557 is listed for the Austin 1750 engine, as used in the Maxi 1972, Allegro in 1973/4. But that is an HS6 for single carb engines so shouldn't have an R (or an F) on the tag. I cannot find a listing for a AUD557R

Are you sure of that number?
Guy W

Probably like my carbs... just a hodge podge of parts thrown to make a pair of carbs...

that was a fun rebuild... think peter burguss lost some hair trying to figure out what I had...haha

The red paint in the block is not factory orginal... just in case you didnt notice that...haha

Seriously... the engine looks exactly like my usa spec 71 midget 1275.

I did notice one oddity... the round washers (rubber??) On the intake / exhauste studs, ive not seen that before

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

I checked the other block tonight which doesn't have the 1275 plate but also doesn't have an oil priming plug, it is actually marked as a 12CE rather than a 12CC as I had thought.

The one in the pics must be a 12CC or 12CD which is a bit of a bugger as it means I don't have a correct block for a 72 built car.
R Barr

A '72 build car should have a 12V-586F prefix until April, 12V 588F prefix after then.
David Smith

I know what engine both midgets I have should have, unfirtunately neither seems to have the correct engine. Both were built in March 72 and should have the 12V-586 -F-H block but not AUD 327 carbs.
For some reason both didn't!
R Barr

Incidentally one of the identities will be for sale soon, not sure just how much of the car is left though to go with it!
I am just about to look through all the bits from two 72 RWA and see what I have duplicates of to get rid of, quite a lot I think!
R Barr

the one in the pic won't be a 12CC, as you said it's a thick flange block.
I reckon the AUD327 carbs are correct, so do Moss - you believe they should be something different?
David Smith

There a fair amount of variation in change points depending on where you look, in some sources a change point at 71 occurs to different carbs and in some others it doesn't.
Moss only state one set of carbs for all years but there are references to up to three varying types between 68 and 74 in other places.
I think I have a matched pair of AUD327's in the attic from a parts car and will probably just refurb them and get rid of the "odd pair".
R Barr

I've personally broken a few cars in the last 10 years and have always found 327s on cars between '70 and '73.
David Smith

Why can't you simply obtain a valid CE engine number?
Daniel Stapleton

Not sure what you mean.
One engine I have has the CE engine plate fitted , the one the pics came from is on my current donor car and has no plate, consequently trying to identify it.
I would like to know what it is so I can
a) try and get a correct 12v block
b) use the best and nearest to correct of the two I have.
R Barr

I don't understand the problem; if you can hardly tell the difference then no-one else will either - so why does it matter, as the 12CE and 12V are to all intents and purposes identical anyway.
David Smith

I will know, I would like to build the car as close to original as possible.
This doesn't need to make sense to others but since I am going to literally rebuild the car down to the last nut and bolt I want to make it as close to as it came from the factory as is practicable.
Since I am also going to completely rebuild and refurbish the engine I would rather start with the correct block at the beginning.
My decision now is whether I go for the CE block or more likely sell the two short engines I have and source a 12-586 from somewhere, I know its going to annoy me................
R Barr

I will know, I would like to build the car as close to original as possible.
This doesn't need to make sense to others but since I am going to literally rebuild the car down to the last nut and bolt I want to make it as close to as it came from the factory as is practicable.
Since I am also going to completely rebuild and refurbish the engine I would rather start with the correct block at the beginning.
My decision now is whether I go for the CE block or more likely sell the two short engines I have and source a 12-586 from somewhere, I know its going to annoy me................
R Barr

Prop, what kind of washers do you have holding your manifolds on? On my '74, it has the thick washers as in the photo. I'm guessing that "normal", thinner flat washers would not hold as well across the large surface.
Jack Orkin

R bar,

I dont want to come across brass or nose in the air

But ... how serious are you about this type of project, is this something you have done before. What are the odds you will see this thur to the end

Doing a restro is though but to do one as detailed as your considering...you almost have to have icy vinegar in your vains and no social life

Lots of respect, and just curious as to your motives, intent and dedication.

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

This thread was discussed between 07/10/2015 and 10/10/2015

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

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