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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Clutch help!

I purchased Mark 4 sprite and noticed clutch slave leaking and gears difficult among other bits, therefore the last six months I have rebuilt the front steering, brakes and suspension

The clutch got new slave as old was leaking, and new hose plus rod and pin in the link
I also took master out and pedal box to complete some floor plan welding

All back now together now
Bled twice
peddle operates slave and pushes rod (new rod, same length as old)

The peddle seems to operated the last 'say' 10 - 15mm of extension on the slave
However, with peddle to the floor the clutch is still engaged
I have started car and driven by being a bit aggressive with the gears (or very quick)
With it in gear the clutch fully pushed down the car will creep slightly.

What have I done wrong?
or does it need new clutch?

Help
Stephen
S K Gomm

Clutch hydraulic system is a b*gger to bleed by pumping, use an easy bleed or suck-through device.
Alex G Matla

Yes, difficult to bleed and get to
I did use the easibleed
twice got about 6" of clean fluid with no bubbles!

ta!
Stephen
S K Gomm

Then maybe push the slave al the way in and tie it up and then bleed again. Its worth a try before pulling the engine.
Alex G Matla

Thanks
I did bleed second time with slave extended
also, with someone in car and pushing peddle with me watching it does move!
My concern is the 'bit' point on the modern cars we have is at the top 1/4 of peddle push, not at the bottom through the floor!! as currently with the Sprite

I will try again next Saturday and use cable tie to hold piston in.

Off to Mallory park marshal 750's tomorrow

Any other ideas welcomed
I have all week to consider

cheers

Stephen
S K Gomm

Wow I have check archive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now I am confused

Next step is to bleed again
perhaps with slave removed from housing and piston pushed in??
Air seems to be main problem according to all
but when peddle is pushed and I am under car watching, I do get alot of movement
Plus all external pedal and push rod holes and pivots are good, some new, but all no slack and tight

How do you look into bell housing?

currently all work on slave from under car

cheers
Stephen
S K Gomm

Air is certainly a big problem. I have always found that to ensure all the air is expelled the system then it should be bled with the slave piston pushed in, otherwise air can be trapped behind the piston. Any system of bleeding works and for me nie on 40 years I have been successful with the traditional method as was the MG factory at Abingdon where your car was built. However easibleed does a good job also.

Secondly when the air is out you need to check if the rod is long enough. This is simple:

From underneath with the piston pushed back into the cylinder see how far the actuator arm has to move to make contact with the clutch disk. ie, until it becomes solid and connects with something. Hopefully it will only be a few mms. Let us know what you find?
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

On the opposite side of the slave is a hole in the bellhouse, covered with a rubber.... ehhh....thing. If you remove that, take a flashlight, then you can just see the release bearing.
Alex G Matla

It's not just your rod length that's critical, wear on pins and bushes in the linkage WILL cause lots of potential problems.

Mark.
M T Boldry

thank you Alex
I will look for this hole and investigate

Also Cheers Bob
Interesting you mention the length of push rod
I did replace with exactly the same length as old one
and the slave is identical to the old one removed.
However, no circlip fitted to either slave.
which meant a face full of fluid when removing the old!

I did notice when first bleeding the piston in the slave: I would guess it moved two thirds out easy.
Now when peddle was pumped to floor this travel pushes piston to the end of the slave! but does move a fair length.
However, I did not notice when it engaged clutch as the hydraulics were pushing
I will try by hand and see

Stephen
S K Gomm

Cheers

All external links are tight and most new
I will look inside also

does anyone know how long the correct rod should be?
I purchased the right part and it was the same as the old one removed. To be save I took old parts to Moss
Plus, I assume the leaking slave caused this difficult gear changes when I purchased it.

Current with all new parts it is worse!

p.s. I though after fitted multiple sets of cheap front wheel bearings, then a big spend on the 40 deg SKF
fixed the slack hubs this morning.
was so excited starting for the first time in 6 months
Clutch and gear, what a blow!

but having fun

all the advise on here and other web site is great

thank you all



S K Gomm

Might sound like a daft question, but are you getting too much movement?

I had a problem with my first race midget whereby I had too much travel on the slave. I had to lift the pedal off the floor before I could get it into gear. Unfortunately, I only discovered this the night before I was setting off for a race at Mondello Park and didn't have time to do anything with it.
When I got to the circuit, I managed to find a piece of wood which I taped to the bodywork behind the clutch pedal to reduce the amount of travel.
It worked so well that I think it was still there when I sold the car.

Anyway, there will be lots of us at Mallory tomorrow, so you can pick our brains during the lunch break.
Dave O'Neill 2

Cheers Dave

it is worth asking around paddock
if the morning session goes well
we may get a lunch break!

HAVE FUN RACING
S K Gomm

""p.s. I though after fitted multiple sets of cheap front wheel bearings, then a big spend on the 40 deg SKF fixed the slack hubs this morning.""

You don't realise how much that means to me to hear that. It took me ages to sort out the wheel bearing problem and it is now showing rewards with various people having the problems sorted.

How did you find out about the solution to front wheel bearings?
Robert (Bob) Midget Turbo

GOOGLE
two sites found, with loads of info both recommended the 40 deg bearings

they work as I fitted two cheap sets on one hub before the more expensive SKF 7303 & 7205 BECBP bearings today
S K Gomm

p.s.

Bob Midget turbo was the first one
thanks
S K Gomm

Stephen,
just wondering if you had resolved your clutch problem.
My reason for asking, I have the same problem! replaced both the master and slave with new ones, bled 4-5 times, doesn't seem to be any air in the system, but clutch bites/releases just off the end of pedal travel meaning gears need a little pursuading (crunch) to go in. Took me ages to change the slave, really, really don't want to have to do that again.
any thoughts would be very helpful,
thanks, Dave.
DW Warren

If you want to easy remove the slave (next time), make a slotted hole of the top one. Tip from Onno.
Alex G Matla

Bleeding the clutch has caused me a huge amount of hassle both times I've done it. Both times I was convinced I'd bled all the air out but it didn't work. After many attempts, I eventually found there WAS still air in the system both times.

Jacking the rear of the car up high seemed to help, but that may have just been coincidence...

If you search the archives, many of the regulars here have installed a very clever way of making the clutch dead easy to bleed - something I'll have a go at next time I need to take the clutch hydraulics out...
MarkH1

This thread was discussed between 10/10/2009 and 14/10/2009

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archive. The Live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS is active now.